Thursday, May 18, 2017

Henry Newcome on Ignatius and Transubstantiation

Henry Newcome, in 1705, tackled the question of Ignatius and Transubstantiation, in response to a Roman Catholic priest identified as T.B.:
He begins with Ignatius, concerning some Heretics, (Ignatius' Epistle to the Smyrneans) that received not Eucharist or Oblations, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the Flesh of Christ. (T. B. Section 1)

The Heretics he means, were the Followers of Simon and Menander, who denied the reality of Christ's Flesh, and for that Reason admitted not the Eucharist. And what is this to Transubstantiation, that some Heretics, because they did not believe that Christ was really Incarnate, would not admit the Eucharist, the Symbols whereof represented and supposed a real Incarnation? Heresy is prolific of Heresy, and their Disbelief of the Incarnation made them reject the Eucharist, lest they would be forced to confess the Flesh of Christ. For if they allowed the Symbols of a true Body, they would be obliged to grant a true Body, since a mere Phantom can have no Sign or Symbol. Thus your Cardinal Bellarmine answers for us (Bellarmine On the Eucharist, book 1, chapter 1, p. 400), Lest the Calvinists (says he) should Glory of the Antiquity of their Opinion, it is to be observed, that those ancient Heretics did not so much oppose the Eucharist as the Mystery of the Incarnation. For therefore (as Ignatius shows in the same place) they denied the Eucharist to be the Flesh of the Lord, because they denied the Lord to have Flesh. If then in the Judgment of your Cardinal these Heretics were no Calvinists, Ignatius in condemning them, neither condemns Calvinists, nor countenances Transubstantiators: What we teach, that the Elements are Sacramental Signs of Christ's Body, is as inconsistent with the Sentiments of those Heretics as Transubstantiation, since such Figures of a Body (as Tertullian argues against the Marcionites) prove the Reality of Christ's Flesh, and that it was no Phantom, which can have no Figure. I may add, That Theodoret, out of whose third Dialogue this Passage of Ignatius is restored (which was not to be found in former Editions of Ignatius) hath plainly declared against the Eutychians (as I have formerly observed) that the Symbols after Consecration recede not from their own Nature, but remain in their former Substance. And he must have a very mean Opinion of Theodoret's Judgment, who can think he imagined this Passage of Ignatius inconsistent with his own Opinion; which would have been to have helped the Heretics instead of confuting them. To conclude, examine this Testimony by the latter part of my fifth Rule, and show us where Ignatius says a Word of the changing of the Substance of the Bread into the Substance of Christ's Body: Which is the Doctrine of the Trent Council, and what T. B. was to prove.
(Part 1, "An Answer to Some Testimonies produced by T. B. from the Fathers of the Six First Centuries, for Transubstantiation," pp. 49-50 - spellings modernized)

Theodoret's Dialogue 3 "The Impasible" (mentioned by Bellarmine)

I should caution that I believe Bellarmine may, on some other occasion, have attempted to use Ignatius against a symbolic understanding of the Eucharist. In any event, however, Bellarmine (as alleged by Newcome) is correct in stating that the objection of the heretics to the Eucharist was a denial of Christ's true humanity - not a denial of a change of the elements.



Syanat 3 said...

تواصل مع خدمة عملاء صيانة ال جي وتعرف على اقوى المهندسين داخل جميع فروع توكيل صيانة ال جي فى كافة انحاء الجمهورية فقط اتصل على رقم ال جي او من خلال زيارة موقعنا الالكترونى

Unknown said...

اقوى افراد حراسات خاصة الان من داخل اكبر شركة حراسات امنية فى مصر تواصل معنا الان لتتعرف على العديد من خدمات امن وحراسة المنشات فقط زور موقعنا الالكترونى الان

care olders said...

تعرف على العديد من خدمات اكبر دار مسنين وبوايطة افضل المتخصصين فى رعاية مسنين مع امكانية توفير مرافقين للعمل على رعاية مسنين بالمنزل فقط زور موقعنا الالكترونى الان said...

تواصل الان مع اكبر شركة مكافحة حشرات لتحصل على اقوى العروض لتتخلص نهائيا من الحشرات فقط زور موقعنا الان وتعرف على اقوى المتخصصين فى ابادة حشرات المنزل السامة والضارة بجميع انواعها من خلال رابط موقعنا الالكترونى

Dave Armstrong said...

Perhaps of interest to you (I posted it on a 2010 thread about sufficiency of Scripture; I didn't know if you would see it there):

David T. King Ignores Sola Scriptura Biblical Disproofs

Jesse said...

That is some of the worst eisegesis that I have ever seen, Dave!

Dave Armstrong said...

I have replied to one of your articles, on James White's page:

"Did Jesus Commission the New Testament (or the Disciples?)"