tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post1308501601718721476..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Scriptural Doctrine of the Atonement Defended - against John MartinTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-1296363205289973642010-05-01T03:19:17.897+01:002010-05-01T03:19:17.897+01:00"Yet scripture says the elect can and do resi..."Yet scripture says the elect can and do resist grace and turn to another gospel in Gal 1:6 "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel"."<br /><br />That doesn't say the elect. Even your own church acknowledges that the elect will persevere to the end. See Trent's discussion.”<br /><br john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-72931757455526639652010-05-01T02:37:56.960+01:002010-05-01T02:37:56.960+01:00Here is the mystery! The unrighteous ones are decl...Here is the mystery! The unrighteous ones are declared justified and are acquitted of all their unrighteousness! Why? Because of the Faith given to them as a gift with the Grace to understand that it is Christ's equitable deed imputed upon them. God can give them this justification and they can accept it from Him because they believe Christ has gone back to the Father from Whom He came so as Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-24118573004291565422010-05-01T02:08:53.543+01:002010-05-01T02:08:53.543+01:00When you examine what is being taught at John 16, ...When you examine what is being taught at John 16, cited above, you might realize then the "three" things being established by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Grace sent out with the Word of the Gospel.<br /><br />The first thing is this, the unrepentant ones receive a call but they are those who stand in their "self" righteousness disregarding God's Word, as taught in both Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-68979691173664612082010-05-01T01:33:34.357+01:002010-05-01T01:33:34.357+01:00JM said: "Notice the reference to calling, th...JM said: "Notice the reference to calling, the explicit reference to the grace of Christ and the turning to a different Gospel in Gal 1:6, meaning a loss of grace for those who were called."<br /><br />What is accomplished with "Godly" repentance?<br /><br />What is a person doing when they are brought to "repentance"?<br /><br /><br />Paul wrote these words in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-45068054775110957432010-05-01T01:00:42.098+01:002010-05-01T01:00:42.098+01:00TF,
in response to JM, you wrote:
"....Ther...TF,<br /><br />in response to JM, you wrote:<br /><br />"....There is more than one kind of calling. An external calling of the word, and an internal calling of the spirit....".<br /><br />JM said: "Notice the reference to calling, the explicit reference to the grace of Christ and the turning to a different Gospel in Gal 1:6, meaning a loss of grace for those who were called."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-74438065504083754442010-04-30T15:55:17.839+01:002010-04-30T15:55:17.839+01:00"Scripture says God calls the elect by His gr..."Scripture says God calls the elect by His grace to enter into eternal life."<br /><br />On its face, this sounds reasonable.<br /><br />"But Calvinism says the elect are so because Gods grace is irresistible and once received, cannot be lost."<br /><br />There's not necessarily conflict.<br /><br />"Yet scripture says the elect can and do resist grace and turn to Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-70492642038277481242010-04-30T12:48:40.263+01:002010-04-30T12:48:40.263+01:00Scripture says God calls the elect by His grace to...Scripture says God calls the elect by His grace to enter into eternal life. But Calvinism says the elect are so because Gods grace is irresistible and once received, cannot be lost. Yet scripture says the elect can and do resist grace and turn to another gospel in Gal 1:6 "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-66941649109579117582010-04-30T12:34:10.812+01:002010-04-30T12:34:10.812+01:0047- Calvinism says there is nothing a man can do t...47- Calvinism says there is nothing a man can do to be justified. "In thy sight shall no flesh be justified."<br />But Calvinism also teaches faith is required to be justified.<br />But faith is an act done by man.<br />Therefore there is an act man can do to be justified, contrary to Calvinism.<br />Therefore Calvinism teaches man cannot do an act to be justified, but must do an act tojohn martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-82950960879974664702010-04-30T06:01:21.259+01:002010-04-30T06:01:21.259+01:0046 – Calvinism bases its doctrine on the premise t...46 – Calvinism bases its doctrine on the premise that scripture is the Word of God. However the texts said to be written by God, never define the meaning of the term inspiration, other than in 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. . .<br />But as “God breathed” is only a metaphor, then all Calvin’s doctrines john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-125303328124001502010-04-30T05:48:58.488+01:002010-04-30T05:48:58.488+01:0039- The righteousness of God is the divine essence...39- The righteousness of God is the divine essence itself, for the divine nature is the eternal law and therefore the divine nature always acts perfectly in accordance with the law, as it is the eternal law. But Calvinism teaches the merit of Christ’s atonement is imputed to the sinner when the sinner has faith. Therefore according to Calvinism, Christ’s atonement only has a value whereby Gods john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-64200503259270956452010-04-30T05:48:39.531+01:002010-04-30T05:48:39.531+01:0034- According to scripture keeping the commandment...34- According to scripture keeping the commandments is easy (1 John 5:3) and we are not to sin (Matthew 18:8, Mark 10:19) to enter into eternal life –<br /><br />1 John 5:3 - This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome<br /><br />Matthew 18:8<br />If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-81518018287512227162010-04-30T04:42:37.989+01:002010-04-30T04:42:37.989+01:00"The reformation is really a humanist movemen..."The reformation is really a humanist movement of unbelievers who couldn’t come to terms with the claims of the one true Church from the apostles, which has the power to teach, govern and sanctify, in spite of the sins of its members."<br /><br /><br />This is insult, not argument.”<br /><br />According to the reformers, Gods grace cannot restore man to a state of innocence whereby he john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-79989742122039847492010-04-30T04:42:06.865+01:002010-04-30T04:42:06.865+01:00"Nominalism says God is unknown to man, so hi..."Nominalism says God is unknown to man, so his will is also unknown, therefore he can say anything he wants and it is true, no matter how absurd it is because man doesn’t know the nature of God or truth. Therefore according to nominalism, God can call man anything, even though man is not so – this is the doctrine of imputed justification. God calls man just, even though he is not john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-69083248269962264562010-04-30T02:22:47.870+01:002010-04-30T02:22:47.870+01:00[cont'd from part 1]
"This is clear evid...[cont'd from part 1]<br /><br />"This is clear evidence that the self proclaimed authorities of the reformers is just that; self proclaimed."<br /><br />It was never about them having their own authority - nor were they aiming to start churches in their own name.<br /><br />"If they can do it, then anybody can do it and that’s why anybody does do it and its being done today Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-7038131116787091502010-04-30T02:22:38.898+01:002010-04-30T02:22:38.898+01:00"There’s nothing here to refute my arguments...."There’s nothing here to refute my arguments."<br /><br />See above.<br /><br />"A subjective experience combined with a scripture quote unrelated to any of my arguments does nothing to answer the many problems found with faith alone theology and its theme of penal substitution."<br /><br />ok<br /><br />"My prediction is there will be no direct answers to the many Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-6872541053037625942010-04-30T02:07:42.612+01:002010-04-30T02:07:42.612+01:00"Nominalism says God is unknown to man, so hi..."Nominalism says God is unknown to man, so his will is also unknown, therefore he can say anything he wants and it is true, no matter how absurd it is because man doesn’t know the nature of God or truth. Therefore according to nominalism, God can call man anything, even though man is not so – this is the doctrine of imputed justification. God calls man just, even though he is not Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-6248550539498108212010-04-30T01:50:55.328+01:002010-04-30T01:50:55.328+01:00Nominalism says God is unknown to man, so his will...Nominalism says God is unknown to man, so his will is also unknown, therefore he can say anything he wants and it is true, no matter how absurd it is because man doesn’t know the nature of God or truth. Therefore according to nominalism, God can call man anything, even though man is not so – this is the doctrine of imputed justification. God calls man just, even though he is not intrinsically john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-65964170378888015392010-04-30T01:50:29.757+01:002010-04-30T01:50:29.757+01:00There’s nothing here to refute my arguments.
A su...There’s nothing here to refute my arguments.<br /><br />A subjective experience combined with a scripture quote unrelated to any of my arguments does nothing to answer the many problems found with faith alone theology and its theme of penal substitution.<br /><br />My prediction is there will be no direct answers to the many problems, but possibly only more scripture quotes taken out of context john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-64079361531243075492010-04-29T23:54:27.425+01:002010-04-29T23:54:27.425+01:00TF,
quite amazing.
JM, you are deceived.
I cert...TF,<br /><br />quite amazing.<br /><br />JM, you are deceived.<br /><br />I certainly can give testimony to the moment I was "touched" by the Spirit of Grace realizing just how deceived I was.<br /><br />I was deceived. I was confused. Partly why was because of my beliefs in the RCC.<br /><br />Once I picked up a Bible and read these words:<br /><br />Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-19398559116713829732010-04-29T11:18:32.329+01:002010-04-29T11:18:32.329+01:003. - Calvinism teaches man cannot do a perfect wor...3. - Calvinism teaches man cannot do a perfect work pleasing to God. If faith is an imperfect work then faith is an act by man that is imperfect and therefore is a sin n the eyes of God. So according to Calvinism, if faith is not perfect and is therefore seen by God as a sin, then sin is the instrument of mans justification. Therefore an act that is sinful is the instrumental cause of mans john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-6602398537204419942010-04-29T11:18:03.434+01:002010-04-29T11:18:03.434+01:00Life to the world refers to all men
John 6:33 For...Life to the world refers to all men<br /><br />John 6:33 For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven, and gives life to the world.<br /><br />I shall give for the life of the world refers to all men.<br /><br />John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-53185305314215374042010-04-29T11:17:11.368+01:002010-04-29T11:17:11.368+01:00"8 – There is no need for repentance because ..."8 – There is no need for repentance because the substitute has been made and the Father sees all men as righteous."<br /><br />FT- Repentance is not a meritorious cause of justification. See discussion of faith above.”<br /><br />Nothing was argued for faith being anything other than a meritorious cause of justification. You only asserted it was an instrument and didn’t make an john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-17659235729301798642010-04-29T11:16:30.791+01:002010-04-29T11:16:30.791+01:00"6 – The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father an..."6 – The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son, after the Son has deceived the Father into thinking we are righteous, even though we are sinners. Therefore the Holy Spirit has been sent on a mission by a deceiver and the deceived, to guide the church into the truth of forensic imputation of righteousness, which is itself a deception. Evidently the Holy Spirit is also a deceiver and john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-27129902802655358102010-04-29T11:15:36.923+01:002010-04-29T11:15:36.923+01:00"1 – Jesus has deceived the father and theref..."1 – Jesus has deceived the father and therefore the Father and Jesus are not God because God cannot be deceived, or sin."<br /><br />No. The Father has graciously permitted the substitution.”<br /><br />Yes, the Father declares sinners just by imputing the righteousness of Christ to the sinner, even though the Father and Jesus know the sinner is still intrinsically a sinner and is not john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.com