tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post133802232157196378..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Am I Safe from Rome's Anathemas?Turretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-29058621140633067582009-10-17T08:07:32.802+01:002009-10-17T08:07:32.802+01:00Hello TF, I am sorry it took awhile to respond. Yo...Hello TF, I am sorry it took awhile to respond. You wrote that "Trent is condemning those who hold positions contrary to the canons of Trent as being outside the faith." I guess you could say that in a broad sense, but it would be more correct to say that when a canon of Trent uses the formulary "If anyone says ... let him be anathema" such language isn't condemning Paul Hofferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09182683665344747977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-49733571024180983592009-10-16T03:38:54.110+01:002009-10-16T03:38:54.110+01:00For me, if there is any "light" to see, ...For me, if there is any "light" to see, when I read these words, Mr. Hoffer, my heart leaped a bit:::><br /><br />"....It is important to understand that the use of the word anathema in the former canon law, conciliar documents, and papal decrees may have different connotations than its usages in the Scriptures.".<br /><br />I would that you would go all the way and come Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-6962605287554444872009-10-15T13:52:00.183+01:002009-10-15T13:52:00.183+01:00Mr. Hoffer:
In response:
1) I would point you ba...Mr. Hoffer:<br /><br />In response:<br /><br />1) I would point you back to my earlier articles on anathema and the 1983 code. As the second of those articles indicates, "anathema" can be used in a broad sense as to any excommunication.<br /><br />2) I agree that (as far as I know) there is no special rite of anathema (as there used to be in special cases) in Catholicism these days.<brTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-71892966059702143922009-10-15T02:48:29.427+01:002009-10-15T02:48:29.427+01:00Sorry TF, I see that you apparently linked to that...Sorry TF, I see that you apparently linked to that curial document in a comment after mine. As far as being able to defect from the Church, I think this is pretty much the way it has been for a while. I think you are confusing the condemnation of a the heresy a person teaches with the authority to condemn personally a heretic. I would suggest that there is a difference.<br /><br />Blessings Paul Hofferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09182683665344747977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-18425519121398023582009-10-15T02:43:01.961+01:002009-10-15T02:43:01.961+01:00comment cont.
In summary, all an excommunication ...comment cont.<br /><br />In summary, all an excommunication really means is that an excommunicated member of the Catholic Church no longer has succor or recourse to receiving the sacraments (other than reconciliation) and the graces that come from their receipt. That is in fact all it has ever meant in the Church going all the way back to St. Paul and 1 Corinthians 16 and Galatians. Even prior Paul Hofferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09182683665344747977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-41846840352451530362009-10-15T02:42:43.324+01:002009-10-15T02:42:43.324+01:00comment cont.
The 1983 Code of Canon law did away...comment cont.<br /><br />The 1983 Code of Canon law did away with the papal ceremony that constituted the imposition of an anathema in the sense I ascribe here. This type of penalty is no longer available as a penalty that could be imposed in the Catholic Church although I will acknowledge that the Church could bring it back if it wanted to do so. This is not to say that a person can no longerPaul Hofferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09182683665344747977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-41980656184630541042009-10-15T02:37:55.426+01:002009-10-15T02:37:55.426+01:00Hello Mr. Fan: I have read the articles you linked...Hello Mr. Fan: I have read the articles you linked to and offer this response. I apologize that I can not provide you with more details as my father is facing some serious surgery it is preoccupying my thoughts at the moment. (Please keep him in your prayers) However, out of courtesy to you and your readers, I offer the following.<br /><br />It is important to understand that the use of the Paul Hofferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09182683665344747977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-31779968307061353052009-10-14T16:11:53.990+01:002009-10-14T16:11:53.990+01:00PA:
Plainly, some of these folks think you are no...PA:<br /><br />Plainly, some of these folks think you are not. Canon law has been making it harder and harder to defect, as outlined in that second article I commended to RdP.<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-91998615226670292402009-10-14T15:36:39.472+01:002009-10-14T15:36:39.472+01:00I should add that having been born and raised Cath...I should add that having been born and raised Catholic, I am most certainly under the anathema of Trent. Am I not correct?Pilgrimsarbourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18046918223325823689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-38993861904667842122009-10-14T15:28:43.073+01:002009-10-14T15:28:43.073+01:00RdP has a follow-up post (here) which hopefully ha...RdP has a follow-up post (<a href="http://the-supplement.blogspot.com/2009/10/sadly-tf-is-mistaken.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>) which hopefully has or will be automatically linked in the "comments elsewhere" section.<br /><br />Very briefly responding:<br /><br />1) RdP's analysis of Canon 96 ignores the fact that the second half on which he focuses is separated from the first Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-31929749994271691902009-10-14T13:26:22.971+01:002009-10-14T13:26:22.971+01:00Mr. Hoffer:
Thanks for your comments. I would su...Mr. Hoffer:<br /><br />Thanks for your comments. I would suggest you read these two prior posts regarding the misconception that the 1983 code of canon law eliminated anathema (<a href="http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2009/08/anathemas-have-been-done-away.html" rel="nofollow">first link</a>)(<a href="http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2009/08/anathema-update.html" rel="nofollow">second link</a>).<Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-32027116587718499012009-10-14T02:52:04.897+01:002009-10-14T02:52:04.897+01:00You aren't under anathema TF.
-KellyYou aren't under anathema TF.<br />-KellyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-9962176076776975122009-10-14T02:37:40.628+01:002009-10-14T02:37:40.628+01:00I am wondering why at least some Catholics appear ...I am wondering why at least some Catholics appear to be anxious to make Protestants understand that we are not under Rome's anathema. Is this official RCC doctrine now? Does this idea come from the top down, or do some of these online Catholic folks find Trent's proclamations too harsh?<br /><br />In either case, it seems to me to represent a big change in the RCC.Pilgrimsarbourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18046918223325823689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-64433700347465424002009-10-13T22:36:52.597+01:002009-10-13T22:36:52.597+01:00A few things now, one, two and three, possibly fou...A few things now, one, two and three, possibly four?<br /><br />One, I would find it an honor to be considered anathema by the RCC.<br /><br />Two, this is jesty and making light of what is obviously serious stuff; one said that after they die and so, me too, that three things will be apparent. One, I find myself in Heaven and a name place at His table. Two, I will be surprised who also has a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com