tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post1946188023611500876..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Joel McDurmon Reviews "The Escondido Theology"Turretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-53589107968937782012015-02-19T00:05:54.961+00:002015-02-19T00:05:54.961+00:00I recommend that everyone stay clear of the likes...I recommend that everyone stay clear of the likes of Joel McDurmon, American Vision, Chalcedon, and Jeff Durbin at Apologia Radio in light of their open support for the unrepentant heretic Mr. Bojidar Marinov.<br /><br />https://dl.orangedox.com/AnOpenLettertoBojidarMarinovAce Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02540774659851277701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-26979165491330037912012-03-27T22:14:38.323+01:002012-03-27T22:14:38.323+01:00Andrew, A quick look shows that he believes that t...Andrew, A quick look shows that he believes that the covenant with Noah was a "common" covenant. Frame shows adroitly that that is not so.Godithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-6825290892782206792012-03-27T19:29:11.108+01:002012-03-27T19:29:11.108+01:00Come across this, recentish, lecture by Vandrunen ...Come across this, recentish, lecture by Vandrunen on my travels. It has the beginnings of a constructive theory;<br /><br />http://www.phc.edu/UserFiles/File/_Academics-SL/Events/Faith%20and%20Reason/VanDrunen%20F&R%20Lecture%20SP11.pdf<br /><br />Not sure if any one else has read, it's new to me.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-68874402778343582982012-03-27T06:02:22.362+01:002012-03-27T06:02:22.362+01:00"Greg Bahnsen being 2k is laughable, Tom. Ple..."Greg Bahnsen being 2k is laughable, Tom. Please man. "<br /><br />Bashnsen was clearly able to distinguish between role of the church and state and their appropriate separation. There is no doubt of that. He was certainly 2K in the traditional Reformed sense of the term. Again, you comment only proves my pojnt re: Escondido's effectiveness in redefining the term.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-21624822465293963952012-03-26T17:27:20.878+01:002012-03-26T17:27:20.878+01:00Oh Dj, I was hoping you would expand on McDurmon g...Oh Dj, I was hoping you would expand on McDurmon getting it wrong?<br /><br />How so?Natamllcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-50861896936326711982012-03-26T16:48:45.481+01:002012-03-26T16:48:45.481+01:00Djbeilstein,
I take it then you would not accept ...Djbeilstein,<br /><br />I take it then you would not accept this quote from Bojidar Marinov?<br /><br /><i>"...If we ignore the fact that “nature” contains no identifiable moral or judicial law for government, this looks like a very sound system, theoretically, if both the church and the state accept the theology of the two kingdoms and act accordingly. But here is the problem for the Natamllcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-27263378947431862732012-03-26T16:35:57.205+01:002012-03-26T16:35:57.205+01:00Andrew:
See here:
http://turretinfan.blogspot.c...Andrew:<br /><br />See here: <br /><br />http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2011/02/varieties-of-two-kingdoms-positions.html<br /><br />-TurretinFanturretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-70387009596952788072012-03-26T16:09:31.998+01:002012-03-26T16:09:31.998+01:00What, would you say, is the difference between Ref...What, would you say, is the difference between Reformed 2K and Escondito 2K?Andrew McKinleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-13694490246875706072012-03-26T12:37:07.723+01:002012-03-26T12:37:07.723+01:00You wrote: "It has been demonstrated quite cl...You wrote: "It has been demonstrated quite clearly through Professor David Vandrunen's book, "Natural Law & The Two Kingdoms", that mild to robust 2k view has been the norm in Reformed Theological social thought."<br /><br />Then you wrote: "I'm not entirely convinced your obession with the original Westminster Confession Of Faith is pertinent to the topic, turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-11919193479488754132012-03-26T12:36:37.469+01:002012-03-26T12:36:37.469+01:00If Frame were "simply firing shots" at a...If Frame were "simply firing shots" at a former employer, they would miss.<br />His are on target, which means the "former employer" needs some defense. <br />So far I have not seen any.Godithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-88987924412017836822012-03-26T07:05:32.659+01:002012-03-26T07:05:32.659+01:00Sorry, Turretin fanatic. I did not see where you p...Sorry, Turretin fanatic. I did not see where you posted these reviews. I did read them from the original sites they were posted on. Most of them did an able job refuting Dr Frame's mistakes. <br /><br />DvD goes into your last point. Luther and Calvin were men of their time(Christendom) and so their realization of their "two kingdom" theology was not practised consistently. What I Djbeilsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-31788231833467157762012-03-26T06:58:50.573+01:002012-03-26T06:58:50.573+01:00I'm Amillennial –– that make me e2k. Why can&#...I'm Amillennial –– that make me e2k. Why can't it just be 2k. And who gets to define where 2k is radical?Djbeilsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-88624677623085073112012-03-26T06:51:27.949+01:002012-03-26T06:51:27.949+01:00I'm not entirely convinced your obession with ...I'm not entirely convinced your obession with the original Westminster Confession Of Faith is pertinent to the topic, Turretin Fanatic. It was rewritten in 1789 and DVD, Dr Hart, and other 2kers took subscription vows on the 1789 revision. Are these men's views divergent from the 1789 WCF is the question? <br /><br />You SHOULD confine your points to the WCF 2k folks take subscription Djbeilsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-49804264831375830002012-03-26T06:22:05.502+01:002012-03-26T06:22:05.502+01:00Dr Frame is simply firing shots at a former employ...Dr Frame is simply firing shots at a former employer. It's human. I did it once. It does not compute that he is, therefore, right on this issue.Djbeilsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-45432265048365856332012-03-26T06:20:04.095+01:002012-03-26T06:20:04.095+01:00Certainly, Natamllc.
Read Professor David Vandru...Certainly, Natamllc. <br /><br />Read Professor David Vandrunen's "Natural Law & The Two Kingdoms" for your answer. Moreover, peruse Dr Vandrunen's helpful "application" book of 2k thought, "Living in God's Two Kingdoms". Both volumes will demonstrate that 2k thought was the norm in terms of dual ethic for "pilgrims on the way." How that is Djbeilsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-30522766153630343132012-03-26T06:19:43.187+01:002012-03-26T06:19:43.187+01:00Greg Bahnsen being 2k is laughable, Tom. Please ma...Greg Bahnsen being 2k is laughable, Tom. Please man.Djbeilsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-7398956061025501722012-03-26T01:12:15.905+01:002012-03-26T01:12:15.905+01:00Mr. Swan,
Not sure about American Vision's vi...Mr. Swan,<br /><br />Not sure about American Vision's view on hyper-preterism. Do you have any examples in mind? (I know you're busy, so it's ok if you don't.)<br /><br />-TurretinFanturretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-37580720176375583392012-03-26T01:10:08.994+01:002012-03-26T01:10:08.994+01:00DJ:
Where are these well-done reviews? I have add...DJ:<br />Where are these well-done reviews? I have addressed and linked to about a half dozen from Hart, I addressed the one by Godfrey first, and I am linking to one from Stellman tomorrow.<br /><br />Horton's was addressed in the review I linked to above.<br /><br />Are there any others worth considering?<br /><br />"It has been demonstrated quite clearly through Professor David turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-22746993929770321292012-03-25T22:07:03.313+01:002012-03-25T22:07:03.313+01:00Djbeilstein,
care to expand on this: "...And...Djbeilstein,<br /><br />care to expand on this: <i>"...And this review gets its wrong. It has been demonstrated quite clearly through Professor David Vandrunen's book, "Natural Law & The Two Kingdoms", that mild to robust 2k view has been the norm in Reformed Theological social thought. ...".</i>Natamllcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-44453022279379455712012-03-25T21:45:15.838+01:002012-03-25T21:45:15.838+01:00I had read this review by Joel McDurmon prior to T...I had read this review by Joel McDurmon prior to TFan posting it, and I am very glad that TFan is helping to give it a more widespread attention.<br /><br />Given that I have not yet read Dr. Frame's book, I benefited much from this section of the review:<br /><br />"Frame exposes some of this in his Preface, and is very candid about his involvement in the seminary before these Truth Unites... and Dividesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-83917438032850344572012-03-25T21:43:05.701+01:002012-03-25T21:43:05.701+01:00TF, thanks for publishing that. Maybe you realize...TF, thanks for publishing that. Maybe you realize it or maybe you don't? I take what I just read personally; this was quite an eye opening experience for me to read that!<br /><br />I didn't know!<br /><br />Hmmmmmmmm!<br /><br />Well, we shall see about tomorrow, cause this evil of today is just about as much as one mind and heart, mine, will endure.<br /><br />I am off to pray and sitNatamllcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-8242678599718673302012-03-25T21:25:13.808+01:002012-03-25T21:25:13.808+01:00"...This (in itself) does not mean that they ...<i>"...This (in itself) does not mean that they agreed with everything that Irons taught, but it does mean that they viewed him as being orthodox and within the bounds of the Reformed faith as summarized in the Westminster Standards (the doctrinal standards of the OPC). ...".</i><br /><br />Have you ever been punched in the stomach so hard you could not breathe?<br /><br />"impactNatamllcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-44464294710256916252012-03-25T21:00:17.257+01:002012-03-25T21:00:17.257+01:00"Meanwhile, the President of Westminster Cali..."Meanwhile, the President of Westminster California is not a 2k proponent but a proud Kuyperian; ..."<br /><br />This comment demonstrates how WSC/Escondido folks have redefined terms for the entire Reformed community. Of course Godfrey is 2K, he's just not a Horton/VanDrunen/Clark 2Ker. Calvin was 2K and even Greg Bahnsen was 2K in some sense. They simply were not what we have Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-66462227288067888672012-03-25T20:37:55.183+01:002012-03-25T20:37:55.183+01:00About McDurmon,
the jury is certainly not in yet ...About McDurmon,<br /><br />the jury is certainly not in yet with me, but saying that I am saying this about McDurmon, "he's got guts"!<br /><br /><i>"...The reaction from Horton and Escondido so far is unfortunate, even pitiful, lame, but expected. I have realized for some time now they are playing a very pointed PR game that relates back to the Lee Irons church trial (and lossNatamllcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-55285066964060277752012-03-25T15:00:11.739+01:002012-03-25T15:00:11.739+01:00I've seen all 3 of the main writers at America...I've seen all 3 of the main writers at American Vision speak out against Full Preterism. In fact Mr. McDurmon is debating the subject and taking a Partial preterist position against the Full preterist position. You are right though, many hyper preterists hang around that place and post in the comment sections regularly. My larger concern is their association with FV guys. They have posted a Lee Gerriettsnoreply@blogger.com