tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post1972078688462745218..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Definition of PerspicuityTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger117125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-45191501364220681222010-06-30T21:33:12.037+01:002010-06-30T21:33:12.037+01:00" William Whitaker was an Anglican and so def..." William Whitaker was an Anglican and so defined the Anglican definition of the clarity of Scripture. "<br /><br />The views he presented were /are shared and held by Presbyterians and Reformed Baptist and others who hold to Sola Scriptura. His teaching on it were included in such confessions like the WCF and LBC. It is to be noted that the Church of England did send some Chafer DTShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06128689713330849677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-54305874716125444182010-06-26T20:58:50.441+01:002010-06-26T20:58:50.441+01:00TF:
Ok, I'll take a gander.
In the meantime...TF:<br /><br />Ok, I'll take a gander. <br /><br />In the meantime, any thoughts on why there are 27 books in the NT? Why not 28 or 26? The reason I mention it, is that Livy [XXVII.37] mentions a procession in Rome to Juno Regina that took place on the Aventine Hill in 207 BC during the Hannabalic War. It struck me immediately. The Vestals were on trial for some irregularity, the Romans wereLothair Of Lorrainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08500837155446550672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-51702749314101489882010-06-22T22:25:19.601+01:002010-06-22T22:25:19.601+01:00I'm not sure if any of my existing posts would...I'm not sure if any of my existing posts would be what you're looking for, as a starting point for that conversation ... there are only two posts tagged with "<a href="http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/search/label/Van%20Til" rel="nofollow">Van Til</a>."<br /><br />There are plenty of folks who know more about Van Til than I do.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-85259993857482469652010-06-22T21:45:25.217+01:002010-06-22T21:45:25.217+01:00TF:
Let's discuss Van Til. I have his book &#...TF:<br /><br />Let's discuss Van Til. I have his book 'Christian Apologetics'. Which one of your articles do we discuss his views?Lothair Of Lorrainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08500837155446550672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-22642351658684914342010-01-16T14:08:08.435+00:002010-01-16T14:08:08.435+00:00LOL:
I thought I told you to go scoff elsewhere.
...LOL:<br /><br />I thought I told you to go scoff elsewhere.<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-83196201935424377692010-01-16T13:54:57.077+00:002010-01-16T13:54:57.077+00:00TF Said: 'Sola Scriptura doesn't mean that...TF Said: 'Sola Scriptura doesn't mean that we only use the exact words and phrases found in Scripture to express theology'.<br /><br />Here we can agree, which is how the Catholic Church has come to see St Mary in a light more exact that that of the protestants. By not limiting ourselves to the 'exact words and phrases found in Scripture to express theology'. Good point you Lothair Of Lorrainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08500837155446550672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-75089273263525039422010-01-14T22:55:29.130+00:002010-01-14T22:55:29.130+00:00TF said: 'However, the questions are not only ...TF said: 'However, the questions are not only "who and where" but also "what kind."<br /><br />Who: The Magesterium<br />Where: Rome, though to a great degree within the Greek Orthodox.<br />What Kind: Those who's Apsotolic Succession goes a little farther back than the 'reformation'.Lothair Of Lorrainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08500837155446550672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-5745089564000621062010-01-14T22:50:23.032+00:002010-01-14T22:50:23.032+00:00Del, you make a good point here, 'After all, n...Del, you make a good point here, 'After all, no one, Catholic or Protestant is arguing that every passage of scripture is clear. Seeing as that is the case, it seems to me rather arbitrary to say that the answer to every question necessary for salvation is included within the "clear" passages of scripture'.<br /><br />Who gets to decide what is 'clear' and if I can argueLothair Of Lorrainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08500837155446550672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-26006105699683035022010-01-14T22:35:02.113+00:002010-01-14T22:35:02.113+00:00I know I am coming into this conversation rather l...I know I am coming into this conversation rather late, and I may yet regret it. But I couldn't help but be struck by Ryans use of Psalm 119:130 "The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple."<br /><br />Now, I know no Catholic who would, to my knowledge, disagree with this verse. I nevertheless cannot see how one could use it to prove the doctrine ofDel Sydebothomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06918420305499157706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-12987550638268066042010-01-14T19:07:18.100+00:002010-01-14T19:07:18.100+00:00LOL,
and I am not laughing out loud now,
I would...LOL,<br /><br />and I am not laughing out loud now,<br /><br />I would say you are more comfortable with the hay and grains mules and horses eat than the meat prepared by the ants!<br /><br />Psa 32:8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you with my eye upon you. <br />Psa 32:9 Be not like a horse or a mule, without understanding, which must be curbed with Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-2694829920401760362010-01-14T16:12:41.087+00:002010-01-14T16:12:41.087+00:00Sp wrote:
"Every single ECF quote I've e...Sp wrote:<br /><br />"Every single ECF quote I've ever read about the so called 'perspicuity' of scripture is really about the material sufficiency of scripture."<br /><br />Webster/King cite the ECFs views on the material sufficiency of Scripture is a separate chapter of the aforementioned book (~130 pages).Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883500968749756873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-59366009095216905122010-01-14T15:56:15.746+00:002010-01-14T15:56:15.746+00:00LOL:
Your repeated demonstrations that you don...LOL:<br /><br />Your repeated demonstrations that you don't understand what <i>sola scriptura</i> means are losing their comedic value. <i>Sola Scriptura</i> doesn't mean that we only use the exact words and phrases found in Scripture to express theology. So, in discussing theology we use categories like "formal sufficiency" and "material sufficiency," even though Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-50288494693198474182010-01-14T15:47:15.083+00:002010-01-14T15:47:15.083+00:00SP got it right. Whitaker had no problem with an a...SP got it right. Whitaker had no problem with an authority outside the Scriptures, the only question is who and where is that authority to be found.<br /><br />@TF: Material and formal sufficiency? Unless both these terms can be found within the Scripture and being used to describe the Scriptures themselves, I am again going to have to shout, 'Sola scriptura!' That is, of course, if you Lothair Of Lorrainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08500837155446550672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-14637252375897176252010-01-14T14:48:25.658+00:002010-01-14T14:48:25.658+00:00SP:
Do you understand the difference between mate...SP:<br /><br />Do you understand the difference between material and formal sufficiency?<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-13190026945316484102010-01-14T14:46:04.674+00:002010-01-14T14:46:04.674+00:00Ryan.
Every single ECF quote I've ever read a...Ryan.<br /><br />Every single ECF quote I've ever read about the so called 'perspicuity' of scripture is really about the material sufficiency of scripture.<br /><br />I suggest you read Ray's "Upon this Rock" as it spends about 100 pages citing ECF about their Catholic ecclesiology and it impossible to read about the ECF's view of scripture without discussing their SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008766411494290281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-74859525725754102822010-01-14T08:56:05.486+00:002010-01-14T08:56:05.486+00:00FYI, SP:
You may want to check out Volume 3 of We...FYI, SP:<br /><br />You may want to check out Volume 3 of Webster's/King's set "Holy Scripture," in which they devote 80 pages of adducements from the ECFs affirming the perspicuity of Scripture.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883500968749756873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-55743154168937700682010-01-13T20:53:51.177+00:002010-01-13T20:53:51.177+00:00SP,
ok, now would you answer my question perspicu...SP,<br /><br />ok, now would you answer my question perspicuiously?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-64688365273502641842010-01-13T20:35:42.874+00:002010-01-13T20:35:42.874+00:00nata.
It seems to me from where I sit you were fi...nata.<br /><br /><i>It seems to me from where I sit you were first of another persuasion??</i><br /><br />Yes. I was raised Reformed Presbyterian. <br /><br />My 7:35:00 PM comment will be my last word about that.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008766411494290281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-65805266104222459002010-01-13T20:09:59.171+00:002010-01-13T20:09:59.171+00:00Sp,
if I might, let me bring you back to my neck ...Sp,<br /><br />if I might, let me bring you back to my neck of the woods??<br /><br />I wrote this in response to something you reiterated again to Steve Hays above:::><br /><br />"....Your religion rests with you doing something. I understand that to be works righteousness.<br /><br />My Religion rests with what God does. I understand that to be My Savior saving me leaving me with Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-74099103965758309102010-01-13T20:00:39.257+00:002010-01-13T20:00:39.257+00:00SP,
well, you are right again. I am no expert on ...SP,<br /><br />well, you are right again. I am no expert on the RCC. The perspicuity of the RCC is such that I wasn't going for it. At no time while a child in the clutches of the nuns and priests was I ever encouraged to read a Bible. Hmmmmm? Why is that?<br /><br />The perspicuity of Scripture with the Holy Spirit giving me detailed understanding of His reasonings for this and that, though,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-13267639984179539542010-01-13T19:57:04.083+00:002010-01-13T19:57:04.083+00:00NatAmLLC didn't claim to be an expert in Roman...<i>NatAmLLC didn't claim to be an expert in Roman Catholicism</i><br /><br />I realize that.<br /><br />But he has argued against RC from a position of authority in that he was at one time Catholic.<br /><br /><i>When you poll my Indian Reservation, now that the Protestant reformers finally made it, we are tipping the count in favor of dumping the RCC! My guess is, give the Reformation a SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008766411494290281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-6814802861380930692010-01-13T19:53:31.021+00:002010-01-13T19:53:31.021+00:00Sorry if I over reacted about the blood comment. ...Sorry if I over reacted about the blood comment. I didn't get it and was thinking that 'ali' had something to do with Islam or something weird like that.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008766411494290281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-83724753707333908392010-01-13T19:52:07.457+00:002010-01-13T19:52:07.457+00:00NatAmLLC didn't claim to be an expert in Roman...NatAmLLC didn't claim to be an expert in Roman Catholicism.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-33820458353400474232010-01-13T19:49:20.020+00:002010-01-13T19:49:20.020+00:00Well Nata, you explained a lot.
I appreciate it....Well Nata, you explained a lot. <br />I appreciate it. <br /><br /><i>I am not very versed with the RCC...I have to say, it was a pretty good convincing job for an 8 year old so after winning the award for saying outloud faster than anyone else the Lord's Prayer I didn't finish. We did go Easter and Christmas mass though all the time!</i><br /><br />So, as a child you didn't go SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008766411494290281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-75664563977736650072010-01-13T19:47:24.362+00:002010-01-13T19:47:24.362+00:00SP,
geeesh, can't you lighten up a bit?
I wa...SP,<br /><br />geeesh, can't you lighten up a bit?<br /><br />I was using the boxing metaphor, Mohamed Ali, the boxing champ! I thought it fit your expereince in here seeing you have taken it on the chin quite a bit and you are still asking questions and all. <br /><br />What, you are runner instead?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com