tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post51936444107425490..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Post-Modern Roman Catholicism - Guest Post by Adam BlauserTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-37267247268661114842012-06-02T00:38:11.655+01:002012-06-02T00:38:11.655+01:00TF: "Since when does the supernatural origin ...TF: "Since when does the supernatural origin of Scripture mean or imply the incomprehensibility of Scripture?"<br /><br />ME: That´s not what I said.<br /><br />TF:"The "error" of the modernists being referred to is the denial of inerrancy, not the application of normal reading abilities".<br /><br />ME: Actually the Church condemns both errors. Please, read again:<Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-31646673495837627892012-06-01T03:09:35.855+01:002012-06-01T03:09:35.855+01:00For some reason, posts keep on appearing and disap...For some reason, posts keep on appearing and disappearing on this thread, but I saw this comment and had to respond:<br /><br /><i>The "until" word has been explain masterfully by St. Jerome. I won't repeat the argument.</i><br /><br />Did you somehow think that I would mention this totally unaware of what Jerome said? I am more than familiar with Jerome's arguments, but the zablausenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-88348584761173011782012-06-01T02:32:46.705+01:002012-06-01T02:32:46.705+01:00Okay, I think I understand what you are saying. I ...Okay, I think I understand what you are saying. I was thinking that, when Hector was using the term "private judgment" that he was saying that the text means whatever the person judges it to mean, whether it matches the author intent or not. That is not the case. However, the author remains in the text to correct us when our judgment is wrong. That is how we avoid relativism.zablausenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-66574314934654916632012-05-31T14:13:51.249+01:002012-05-31T14:13:51.249+01:00"it is not really a matter of private judgmen..."it is not really a matter of private judgment, since the author of the text remains"<br /><br />The term "private judgment" long pre-dates post-modernism. Private judgment is the tool we use to discover authorial intent, not the source of meaning.turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-89596035435412173262012-05-31T14:12:41.559+01:002012-05-31T14:12:41.559+01:00Amusingly, while neither Kung nor Brown has ever b...Amusingly, while neither Kung nor Brown has ever been excommunicated, do you know who have been excommunicated and later restored? The SSPX bishops.<br /><br />http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CBISLEFB.HTM<br /><br />http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0900355.htm<br /><br />But no, they and their ilk continue to demonstrate that they don't actually care what the magisterium of turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-52393640764107153472012-05-31T13:57:42.288+01:002012-05-31T13:57:42.288+01:00Hector: Your judgment about who is an "orthod...Hector: Your judgment about who is an "orthodox Catholic" doesn't match your church's judgment. Who is right?<br /><br />-TurreitnFanturretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-58216940299520290942012-05-31T13:56:13.187+01:002012-05-31T13:56:13.187+01:00"The "until" word has been explain ..."The "until" word has been explain masterfully by St. Jerome. I won't repeat the argument."<br /><br />Jerome's fallacious argument has been masterfully debunked by Eric Svendsen. I won't repeat the argument.<br /><br />It is not surprising that the spiritual descendents of Jeroboam, the son of Nebat, are so strongly opposed to iconoclasts.<br /><br />-TurretinFanturretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-33617537519070371142012-05-31T13:52:01.857+01:002012-05-31T13:52:01.857+01:00Hector:
Since when does the supernatural origin o...Hector:<br /><br />Since when does the supernatural origin of Scripture mean or imply the incomprehensibility of Scripture?<br /><br />The "error" of the modernists being referred to is the denial of inerrancy, not the application of normal reading abilities.<br /><br />-TurreitnFanturretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-32778462749610200442012-05-30T21:43:22.549+01:002012-05-30T21:43:22.549+01:00ADAM SAID: "Not only that, but if you need an...ADAM SAID: "Not only that, but if you need an "infallible interpreter" to know which interpretations of a text are correct, then how do we know what the correct interpretations of the Egyptian Book of the Dead are? Scholars disagree. How do we know what the correct interpretation of the Baal epic is? Scholars disagree. How do we know what the correct interpretation of the Epic of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-50099775633751875212012-05-30T20:52:57.352+01:002012-05-30T20:52:57.352+01:00"... If we can come to the meaning of this Pa..."... If we can come to the meaning of this Papal Encyclical by the use of rules of language, then why don't you allow for the same things when it comes to these texts:<br /><br />Matthew 1:25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus. "<br /><br />The "until" word has been explain masterfully by St. Jerome. I won't repeat the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-4736017954175625952012-05-30T20:09:52.471+01:002012-05-30T20:09:52.471+01:00zablause said:"The problem is, is that statem...zablause said:"The problem is, is that statement by Pius X and ex cathedra statement? According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, a Papal Encyclical does not necessarily entail an ex cathedra statement"<br /><br />ME:You don´t get it, do you? Even if the Sillabus isn´t an "ex cathedra statement", who questions the historical accuracy of CENTRAL articles of the Catholic faith Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-29531389787979302792012-05-30T18:30:09.625+01:002012-05-30T18:30:09.625+01:00Hector, this is only true if you rip me badly out ...Hector, this is only true if you rip me badly out of context. Here is what I wrote:<br /><br /><i>If I as a Protestant begin with the personal triune God of the Bible, who has revealed to us in his word that he has created us in his image, then one can make sense out of why human beings can understand intentionality in language, including the Bible. God, as a triune being, communicates within thezablausenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-5502022123844854302012-05-30T18:17:39.401+01:002012-05-30T18:17:39.401+01:00Hector,
The problem is, is that statement by Pius...Hector,<br /><br />The problem is, is that statement by Pius X and ex cathedra statement? According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, a Papal Encyclical does not necessarily entail an ex cathedra statement:<br /><br />"As for the binding force of these documents it is generally admitted that the mere fact that the pope should have given to any of his utterances the form of an encyclical doeszablausenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-9733669913606327782012-05-30T18:10:01.955+01:002012-05-30T18:10:01.955+01:00TF said: "Who told Hector that Brown was hete...TF said: "Who told Hector that Brown was heterodox? ".<br /><br />ME: A papal enciclical: LAMENTABILI SANE(SYLLABUS CONDEMNING THE ERRORS OF THE MODERNISTS ) which condems those who belive that:<br />"The Resurrection of the Savior is not properly a fact of the historical order. It is a fact of merely the supernatural order (neither demonstrated nor demonstrable) which the Hectornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-76086195050136174782012-05-30T18:02:24.080+01:002012-05-30T18:02:24.080+01:00zablause said:" You can go to the world the a...zablause said:" You can go to the world the author constructs, and what the author is trying to do on the basis of that world, and use it as a reference point to judge which interpretation is correct. "<br /><br />ME: Too dense, too rationalistic/modernist for my taste. I am a traditional catholic, your exegesis is alien to me. And I suspect that Pius X condemn that theory too:<br /><Hectornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-83493286611051118262012-05-30T17:41:44.131+01:002012-05-30T17:41:44.131+01:00zablause said: "The problem is that Brown has...zablause said: "The problem is that Brown has not been excommunicated from the Catholic church as Kung has". <br /><br />Boys, I have already told you, I don't pay a cent to argue against liberals who have not been formally excommunicated . Actually Pope Pius X has done that quite well:<br /><br />“With truly lamentable results, our age, casting aside all restraint in its search Hectornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-48707872241732279792012-05-30T15:51:48.026+01:002012-05-30T15:51:48.026+01:00I wasn't aware that Kung hadn't been excom...I wasn't aware that Kung hadn't been excommunicated. That is interesting.<br /><br /><i>So, it becomes clear that Hector really does believe in using private judgment, he just pretends that private judgment is worthless when trying to discuss the Bible.</i><br /><br />Bingo. However, it is not really a matter of private judgment, since the author of the text remains, both in the case of zablausenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-5320763777255686102012-05-30T15:11:43.086+01:002012-05-30T15:11:43.086+01:00how could the "anonymous" did decision a...how could the "anonymous" did decision and said that the "RCC" is the only true interpreter and not chose eastern orthodox, syrian, mormon and jehovah witnesses as true interpreter while these make same claim. <br /> who did tell to him ("the anonymous" romanist church participant") while others make same claim ?. maybe he (the anonymous) got more rick pilgrimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-52647362652634590052012-05-30T14:19:11.007+01:002012-05-30T14:19:11.007+01:00"So, it becomes clear that Hector really does..."So, it becomes clear that Hector really does believe in using private judgment, he just pretends that private judgment is worthless when trying to discuss the Bible."<br /><br />TF you are exactly right on the money. I found much of his arguments to be circular reasoning too. One minute he is practicing Sola Ecclesia and then the next minute he is doing his own private judgement. ChaferDTSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-67342659130140544872012-05-30T14:12:40.665+01:002012-05-30T14:12:40.665+01:00In fact, even Küng hasn't been excommunicated....In fact, even Küng hasn't been excommunicated. The CDF did put restrictions on his teaching credentials - he can't teach "Catholic theology," but that's it. The University that he taught for allowed him teach "Ecumenical Theology" instead (he's a professor emeritus these days - not sure how actively he's teaching). He remains a priest. More than that, turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-51691511283220846982012-05-30T13:59:59.403+01:002012-05-30T13:59:59.403+01:00"Anonymous": I'm not sure if any of ..."Anonymous": I'm not sure if any of your posts are showing up here in Disqus. It's not really set up to tolerate anonymous comments.turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-38988869364408759842012-05-30T01:08:44.455+01:002012-05-30T01:08:44.455+01:00Hi Adam,I have posted a few answers, but I don´t s...Hi Adam,I have posted a few answers, but I don´t see those here, I don´t know why, anyway I assume you can get it if you search in "disqus mode".<br /><br />Adam said: "Hector, then why don’t we see any correspondence between the two, and, in fact, why do we see contradictions?"<br /><br />ME: I suppose that you don't see any correspondence because you are using the brokenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-89764272799365253362012-05-30T00:37:43.803+01:002012-05-30T00:37:43.803+01:00" Mormonism is a protestant sect."
Morm..." Mormonism is a protestant sect."<br /><br />Mormonism is not a protestant sect. Are you clueless on Protestantism ? Protestants who to the five Solas whereas Mormonism denies them. Mormonism does not embrace distinctive doctrinal beliefs that are Protestant. Mormons like the RCC hold to Sola Eccclesia since they like the RCC claims an infallible teaching authority.ChaferDTSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-61453822323239391942012-05-29T23:28:01.228+01:002012-05-29T23:28:01.228+01:00I don´t uderstand why I can see some of my posts.
...I don´t uderstand why I can see some of my posts.<br />HectorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-23803243159151650632012-05-29T23:00:52.246+01:002012-05-29T23:00:52.246+01:00Adam said: "The problem is that there are dif...Adam said: "The problem is that there are different interpretations of this tradition . For example, Raymond Brown..."<br /><br />I respond: I won´t spend any time trying to refute heterodox theologians like Brown, Kung etc. There are sharpened scholars and apologists who have done that before. If you are interested I recomend you a good and documented review Dave Armstrong does in hisHectornoreply@blogger.com