tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post5632493512578400071..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Cardinal George Pell vs. Richard Dawkins - Some ThoughtsTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-9036475792954548022012-04-25T00:27:11.717+01:002012-04-25T00:27:11.717+01:00Okay - you have convinced me - time to write anoth...Okay - you have convinced me - time to write another blog post using my research on the matter including Unam Sanctam which is one of the most poorly misunderstood. There is indeed division among the Fathers as I will show you. I think you do need to be concerned about hermeneutics - you are using yuour own when approaching both Scripture and Church teaching so it is indeed a relevant question. IRenaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-55374682151674983572012-04-24T18:37:19.106+01:002012-04-24T18:37:19.106+01:00"showing once again why only magisterial stat..."showing once again why only magisterial statements should be ultimately considered and studied in depth hen seeking orthodoxy"<br /><br />Unam Sanctam looks and quacks like a magisterial statement.<br /><br />"Different theologians and Church Fathers were divided on the interpretation of the axiom"<br /><br />I cannot think of any church fathers that thought "no turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-67305806998504946282012-04-24T17:25:45.797+01:002012-04-24T17:25:45.797+01:00I know what the Feeneyites taught and the teaching...I know what the Feeneyites taught and the teaching was devoid of recognition of the complete thought and development of the teaching. Whether or not the Feenyites followed the trend from medieval tradition is , I think, not relevant. In fact what the Feenyites taught and believed is neither here nor there. They are not the Magisterium. Different theologians and Church Fathers were divided on the Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-49587193235925119532012-04-24T16:42:11.055+01:002012-04-24T16:42:11.055+01:00"The doctrine "extra ecclesiam nulla sal..."The doctrine "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" has been so misunderstood. "<br /><br />Clearly it has been misunderstood by someone - the question is by whom. It seems that the Feenyites had the better argument from tradition. But, obviously, what they taught is not what Rome teaches today. Vatican II was pretty clear that people can be saved in Islam.<br /><br />-TurretinFanturretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-91394914576750225232012-04-23T23:26:45.796+01:002012-04-23T23:26:45.796+01:00The doctrine "extra ecclesiam nulla salus&quo...The doctrine "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" has been so misunderstood. I have studied it in depth including the reference you have made turretinfan. Happy to send you my essay on that if you wish - but suffice it to say there is no contradiction - the Church's teaching has been consistent - but it has developed given the nature of the mystery of teh Church as both the mystical Body Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-89588667568631856272012-04-23T18:18:00.602+01:002012-04-23T18:18:00.602+01:00Rennats:
Contrast your post with Unam Sanctam, wh...Rennats:<br /><br />Contrast your post with Unam Sanctam, which <i>seems</i> to dogmatically define a doctrine that submission to the pope is "absolutely necessary" to salvation.<br /><br />How something can be "absolutely necessary" and not necessary at all is an interesting problem.<br /><br />-TurretinFanturretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-29944019469083498452012-04-22T00:22:58.515+01:002012-04-22T00:22:58.515+01:00My final installment on the possibility of salvati...My final installment on the possibility of salvation for atheists - hope it contributes to the questions about the issue recently after the Q&A debate two weeks ago. Hope it also illustrates what the Catholic Church teaches about t this - and makes for open discussion. God bless, <br />Renato http://alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/2012/04/ordinary-and-extraordinary-ways-of.htmlRenaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-578196837051878042012-04-17T15:24:30.566+01:002012-04-17T15:24:30.566+01:00Inspired by comments on this blog - I invite comme...Inspired by comments on this blog - I invite comments on the following. <br />http://alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/salvation-and-interpretation-of.htmlRenaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-55808150967321622032012-04-16T01:21:05.105+01:002012-04-16T01:21:05.105+01:00Dear Godith
What you suggest is simply not accura...Dear Godith <br />What you suggest is simply not accurate. Always be careful what you think the Catholic Church actually teaches. Vatican II has nothing to do with Evolution and the Church has not officially accepted it since it is a theory and not a theological reality regardless of what individual theologians might make of it. The following is what the Church does indeed teach and the last Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-89849449914119854692012-04-15T22:07:22.060+01:002012-04-15T22:07:22.060+01:00As for the RCC and evolution. As one RC friend sai...As for the RCC and evolution. As one RC friend said--"Creation, evolution--we do both." Evolution apparently came into the RCC as a result of Vatican 2 or maybe V2 just solidified it. Those who hold the current Pope is not the Pope & the traditional Latin Mass folk do not as far as I know ever teach evolution. It's pure creationism.Godithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-5201186878141270302012-04-15T13:09:25.607+01:002012-04-15T13:09:25.607+01:00The Magisterium decides when the proper conditions...The Magisterium decides when the proper conditions are met trusting that when Christ said he would send His Spirit to guide the Apostles and hence their successors in all things he meant what he said. <br />If you do not call "the Gates of Hell will never prevail" a guarantee from Christ as long as we have a "Peter" at the helm I don't know what you will. It si clear that Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-57144058960386676622012-04-15T13:00:47.408+01:002012-04-15T13:00:47.408+01:00An individual cardinal is not infallible - pure an...An individual cardinal is not infallible - pure and simple. The Church does not teach that.Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-28866916322778071632012-04-15T12:59:29.238+01:002012-04-15T12:59:29.238+01:00Dear TF
I fail to see how you come to the conclus...Dear TF <br />I fail to see how you come to the conclusion that I exalt private judgement since I clearly do not. What is your yardstick for knowing whether or not your comparison of Scripture with Scripture is correct? If you cannot claim personal infallibility (and I am glad to hear it) then why should I listen to your interpretation? With regards to your question about why I think I know more Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-54422525938975791102012-04-15T02:09:25.221+01:002012-04-15T02:09:25.221+01:00I see that you enjoy twisting what I say. So perha...I see that you enjoy twisting what I say. So perhaps a question for you. How do you know your interpretation of Scripture is according to God's will and more infallible than someone else's?Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-82805870051871423842012-04-14T13:10:28.616+01:002012-04-14T13:10:28.616+01:00re Historicity and validity of papal infallbility ...re Historicity and validity of papal infallbility - I suggest if you are truly open minded you will take a look at the following - http://www.catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibilityRenaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-29128592370402277122012-04-14T13:05:57.814+01:002012-04-14T13:05:57.814+01:00Again it all comes down to authority - http://aleg...Again it all comes down to authority - http://alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/2011/12/conundrum-of-proof-text-christianity.htmlRenaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-85663034845177462672012-04-14T13:04:10.826+01:002012-04-14T13:04:10.826+01:00Actually that is not what I meant at all - private...Actually that is not what I meant at all - private judgement can never trump the hierarchy when the proper conditions are met for infallible teaching. Christ has guaranteed that the magisterium will always be in line with Scripture PROPERLY interpreted and not according to the particular prefrence of individuals or organisations. This is what I mean here - http://alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/2011Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-30198858488776409822012-04-13T23:51:53.618+01:002012-04-13T23:51:53.618+01:00Fortunately any priest, bishop or Cardinal cannot ...Fortunately any priest, bishop or Cardinal cannot express any views that cannot be checked or assessed against Magisterial statements as in the Catechism of Church Councils. Whether or not liberal Catholicism is in dominance re numbers it matters not to true orthodoxy.Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-48842241281508068272012-04-13T23:50:19.318+01:002012-04-13T23:50:19.318+01:00That's a good question. Fortunately for Cathol...That's a good question. Fortunately for Catholics the gift of infallibility for a Pope ensures that when declaring matters of faith and morals a Pope cannot err. In fact even when dodgy popes have ruled they NEVER declared anything infallibly that was incorrect or against any established teaching.Renaatshttp://www.alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-39252631986218042482012-04-13T21:51:37.791+01:002012-04-13T21:51:37.791+01:00Very good point Turretinfan. Another one would be ...Very good point Turretinfan. Another one would be that "prince of church" Cardinal Pell is not a loner in views he testified on Australian TV... In fact he is in majority of Roman Catholic clergy as far as that.Christ,ophernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-60235193676474335522012-04-13T18:45:31.990+01:002012-04-13T18:45:31.990+01:00I'm curious whether your reflections included ...I'm curious whether your reflections included thoughts on the fact that Pell may be, or at a minimum, elect the next bishop of Rome?turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-82747771794208306862012-04-13T15:57:57.982+01:002012-04-13T15:57:57.982+01:00Unfortunately Cardinal Pell's comments have ca...Unfortunately Cardinal Pell's comments have caused a bit of stir. As a Catholic I have reflected on it deeply. Here are some thoughts on the debate and Adam and Eve, original Sin and origins. http://alegacyofgrace.blogspot.com/2012/04/pell-vs-dawkins-question-of-adam-and.htmlRenaatsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-17046875670684640322012-04-12T13:43:16.947+01:002012-04-12T13:43:16.947+01:00Churchmouse:
Of course, these days "conserva...Churchmouse:<br /><br />Of course, these days "conservative" apologetic groups like "Catholic Answers" don't refer to Purgatory as a "place" but rather a "state."turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-29068284415936300022012-04-12T06:03:58.677+01:002012-04-12T06:03:58.677+01:00This "debate" is between and official un...This "debate" is between and official unbeliever - Dawkins and unofficial unbeliever masquerading as believer Pell.Christ,ophernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-90217069560346616052012-04-12T01:59:18.839+01:002012-04-12T01:59:18.839+01:00'I certainly believe in a place of purificatio...'I certainly believe in a place of purification.'<br /><br />Purgatory. <br /><br />This is why the Cardinal hopes no one is in Hell. His viewpoint sounds like C S Lewis's.Churchmousehttp://churchmousec.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com