tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post5864006174148731707..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Two Eastern Fathers Whose Views Conflict with PurgatoryTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-51015552021294841442010-07-04T19:07:32.394+01:002010-07-04T19:07:32.394+01:00Tell us more about how modern E.O. churches still ...<i>Tell us more about how modern E.O. churches still pray FOR Mary and the saints.</i><br /><br /><br />Sorry, I thought you knew. It's in the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (served every Sunday):<br /><br /><br /><i>Priest (in a low voice): Again, we offer this spiritual worship for those who reposed in the faith: forefathers, fathers, patriarchs, prophets, apostles, preachers, evangelists, Luciannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-8064987392758670922010-07-03T22:16:13.821+01:002010-07-03T22:16:13.821+01:00Vissaus, you may want to study up on the Eastern F...Vissaus, you may want to study up on the Eastern Fathers and how they viewed the dead as being in Hades. This may offer some insight as to their mentality of praying for the dead. I offered an explanation of this given by an Orthodox scholar in the last post TF had on purgatory and St. Chrysostom. Hopefully that bit of information was a learning experience for all involved. I am sure those who James Bellisariohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01786370386909499672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-31137676168390618142010-07-03T14:05:36.358+01:002010-07-03T14:05:36.358+01:00Lvka is apparentyl EO, so one presumes he follows ...Lvka is apparentyl EO, so one presumes he follows his church's continued rejection of the Roman fiction of Purgatory.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-16416912343144086972010-07-03T13:49:16.514+01:002010-07-03T13:49:16.514+01:00"Why the past tense?"
Well, here's ..."Why the past tense?"<br /><br />Well, here's your chance to shine Lvka. Tell us more about how modern EO churches still pray FOR Mary and the saints.<br /><br />We can clearly see here another case of "dueling traditions", as RCs seem to disapprove...<br /><br />(citing my earlier post)<br /><br />"The verity of the second is manifested by the confession of the Viisaushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02682159289133730565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-29272447333063887052010-07-03T13:40:06.673+01:002010-07-03T13:40:06.673+01:00(continued)
For Aerius and Thomas (Aquinas) both ...(continued)<br /><br />For Aerius and Thomas (Aquinas) both agree in this, that prayer for the dead would be altogether unprofitable if the dead themselves received no special benefit thereby. This doth Epiphanius, defending the ancient use of these prayers in the Church, shew to be untrue, by producing other profits that redound from thence unto the living; partly by the public signification of Viisaushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02682159289133730565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-87397603666723371582010-07-03T13:36:11.879+01:002010-07-03T13:36:11.879+01:00Ussher also showed lawyer-like cleverness (though ...Ussher also showed lawyer-like cleverness (though not of shyster-variety) when dealing with a case of heresy-hunter Epiphanius condemning certain Aerius for opposing prayers for the dead. <br /><br />He proved that even this case (which is a great favorite of RC/EO apologists), when observed in detail, gives us indirect proof against the later RC dogma of Purgatory.<br /><br />(Btw, this Viisaushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02682159289133730565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-71361369231169677152010-07-03T12:34:26.201+01:002010-07-03T12:34:26.201+01:00for example, they used to pray FOR Virgin Mary!
...<i>for example, they used to pray FOR Virgin Mary!</i><br /><br /><br />Why the past tense?Luciannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-87644770478193839522010-07-03T08:18:26.625+01:002010-07-03T08:18:26.625+01:00pp. 176-178
"Now, having thus declared, unto...pp. 176-178<br /><br />"Now, having thus declared, unto what kind of persons the commemorations ordained by the ancient Church did extend, the next thing that cometh to consideration is, what we are to conceive of the primary intention of those prayers that were appointed to be made therein. And here we are to understand, that first prayers of praise and thanksgiving were presented unto God Viisaushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02682159289133730565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-65930544371903196362010-07-03T08:17:41.075+01:002010-07-03T08:17:41.075+01:00The church in the days of Chrysostom did indeed &q...The church in the days of Chrysostom did indeed "pray for the dead" - a thing that strict Protestants would object to, seeing from history how it set up a slippery slope to praying TO the dead.<br /><br />(One could argue that the error of Purgatory was the "logical" end result of praying for the dead, and that post-Nicene church fathers were saved from it by "blessed Viisaushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02682159289133730565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-29870760813753073002010-07-03T06:52:38.531+01:002010-07-03T06:52:38.531+01:00So Lvka, I would take that as a proof that EOs do ...So Lvka, I would take that as a proof that EOs do not believe in post-mortem Purgatory?Viisaushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02682159289133730565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-55102877948357407402010-07-03T00:43:55.638+01:002010-07-03T00:43:55.638+01:00There is a pious story of a disciple of a monk, wh...There is a pious story of a disciple of a monk, who pondered about God's justice. His righteous elder was devoured by a wild beast, and -at about the same time- a notoriously rich and sinful man was burried with much pomp and honor. An angel is sent by God to accompany him on his way, in the form of a young monk. At the end, he explains to the disciple that the rich, sinful man got his rewardThe Blogger Formerly Known As Lvkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09663692507774640889noreply@blogger.com