tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post5897828735225737098..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: To Whom Can Roman Catholics Pray?Turretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-84804419406624126342009-03-15T17:19:00.000+00:002009-03-15T17:19:00.000+00:00Excellent. I see I mistakenly typed "from" above i...Excellent. I see I mistakenly typed "from" above instead of "through." Sorry about that.Mike Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854620298988801571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-67479475710502202452009-03-15T00:53:00.000+00:002009-03-15T00:53:00.000+00:00Hi Mike,I'm working on a new post that should help...Hi Mike,<BR/><BR/>I'm working on a new post that should help clarify the distinction amongst for, through, and to.<BR/><BR/>-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-58243104816898990342009-03-14T18:44:00.000+00:002009-03-14T18:44:00.000+00:00I would like to seek further elucidation from you ...I would like to seek further elucidation from you (as I asked in the combox of my "Elaboration" post) as to what distinction you are drawing between "prayers to and prayers from." <BR/>As to the others, I've labeled them. Primary among the errors to which I referred was the use of an incorrect rule of faith on your part and then an illegitimate appeal to that authority, but also the misdirection,Mike Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854620298988801571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-20545270928020581432009-03-14T17:10:00.000+00:002009-03-14T17:10:00.000+00:00Well, I still haven't spotted the egregious error,...Well, I still haven't spotted the egregious error, but I'm keeping my eyes peeled. Would you condescend to simply tell me straight what you think it is?<BR/><BR/>I would guess it is the public/private distinction issue, which seemed very important to you, but which was somewhat glossed over in my original post.<BR/><BR/>-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-66512023981969875992009-03-13T22:04:00.000+00:002009-03-13T22:04:00.000+00:00I have a new post up which addresses and elaborate...I have a new post up which addresses and elaborates on the issues you raised and with my objections to your post. It also briefly touches on one egregious error, but that's a different ball of yarn.Mike Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854620298988801571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-5918131146558625862009-03-13T02:22:00.000+00:002009-03-13T02:22:00.000+00:00Mike,I'm open to the possibility that I've made so...Mike,<BR/><BR/>I'm open to the possibility that I've made some egregious error in analyzing the canons in question. On the other hand, your post (when I looked at it earlier) did not identify any errors - it just complained about shifting ground and employed an elaborate analogy that is probably more clear to you than to me.<BR/><BR/>-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-71502131941490369442009-03-13T00:39:00.000+00:002009-03-13T00:39:00.000+00:00I wasn't confused at all. I think you've made egre...I wasn't confused at all. I think you've made egregious errors. By all means, come over to comment and I'll elaborate at length.Mike Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854620298988801571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-17406482886896048582009-03-12T22:16:00.000+00:002009-03-12T22:16:00.000+00:00Dear Ben,The "private veneration" argument is one ...Dear Ben,<BR/><BR/>The "private veneration" argument is one I was trying to address with the "if it is not prohibited it is permitted" comments in the blog post.<BR/><BR/>While the encyclopedia is better than nothing, it's not quite authoritative as a matter of faith/morals within the theology of Catholicism, as you are doubtless aware.<BR/><BR/>-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-25855437457830415632009-03-12T20:38:00.000+00:002009-03-12T20:38:00.000+00:00I see that Mike has expressed what I can only desc...I see that Mike has expressed what I can only describe as confusion over this post (<A HREF="http://syzygus.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/is-this-deliberate/" REL="nofollow">link</A>).<BR/><BR/>The issue that this post raises is best viewed in the context of an ongoing discussion at Beggars All Reformation (<A HREF="http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2009/03/Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-42752583606171457592009-03-12T17:37:00.000+00:002009-03-12T17:37:00.000+00:00This is also interesting in light of the idea, oft...This is also interesting in light of the idea, often used by Roman apologists in my experience, that praying to saints is really analogous to asking living Christian friends to pray for us. I always thought that strange considering that the saints are just any other Christians.Kyjohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02576699017770933239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-49240824693554417432009-03-12T17:10:00.000+00:002009-03-12T17:10:00.000+00:00From the Catholic Encyclopedia: "It must be obviou...From the Catholic Encyclopedia: "It must be obvious, however, that while private moral certainty of their sanctity and possession of heavenly glory may suffice for private veneration of the saints, it cannot suffice for public and common acts of that kind."<BR/><BR/>http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htmBen Douglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12251222044837915281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-56367832257351663542009-03-12T16:24:00.000+00:002009-03-12T16:24:00.000+00:00Dear Francis,There is a reason Canon law specifies...Dear Francis,<BR/><BR/>There is a reason Canon law specifies <I>public</I> veneration. While public veneration of non-beatified persons is prohibited, private veneration is permitted. No one gets beatified unless people are privately venerating him in the first place. I don't have a source for this off the top of my head but I am sure I could find one.Ben Douglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12251222044837915281noreply@blogger.com