tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post6042216158552633710..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Don't Be Surprised if You Make Some MistakesTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-58742622531536830552009-12-18T18:20:02.267+00:002009-12-18T18:20:02.267+00:00Thanks for letting me know what you think, Joe!Thanks for letting me know what you think, Joe!Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-54898834202761736922009-12-18T18:15:51.000+00:002009-12-18T18:15:51.000+00:00TurretinFan,
Clement is actually arguing the opp...TurretinFan, <br /><br />Clement is actually arguing the opposite - what Jennie originally thought. I readily admit it's not immediately obvious, though. If you're interested, Part II of my post today addressed that (which is how I came across your post):<br />http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com/2009/12/after-post-i-wrote-about-sola-scriptura.htmlJoe Heschmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-28371447836645573452009-09-28T14:56:58.798+01:002009-09-28T14:56:58.798+01:00As to giving birth naturally, yes. As to having r...As to giving birth naturally, yes. As to having relations with Joseph, I'm iffy. The idea that she did not have relations with Joseph may have developed fairly early on, and it is possible that Clement thought that. If one assumes that Mary was immensely holy and that virginity is more holy than marital relations, it is easy to see how someone could try to find room in the Biblical Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-29075246811671438682009-09-28T14:38:35.613+01:002009-09-28T14:38:35.613+01:00Thanks TurretinFan,
I think I've got it now; C...Thanks TurretinFan,<br />I think I've got it now; Clement believed Mary gave birth naturally, but did not have relations with Joseph; is that right?<br />Any recommendations on my earlier question about where to start reading the Fathers?Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-17863452538128126512009-09-28T13:59:38.602+01:002009-09-28T13:59:38.602+01:00Sorry for the misunderstanding, Jennie.
Yes, I ca...Sorry for the misunderstanding, Jennie.<br /><br />Yes, I can see what you mean. There's some ambiguity to the way that sentence is phrased. In view of his following comments, I would consider the "although she was not" to be a reference to what these Gnostics thought, as opposed to what the fact of the matter was.<br /><br />In denying their account, he does appear to be denying Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-64921921625071098092009-09-28T13:49:17.362+01:002009-09-28T13:49:17.362+01:00Hi TurretinFan,
Now you're misunderstanding me...Hi TurretinFan,<br />Now you're misunderstanding me; I've given birth 5 times, so I did get the part about 'perpueral':) To me it sounded like Clement was saying Mary was NOT in a perpueral state because he said 'when she was not.' So it was confusing me. You are saying Clement DID believe she was in a perpueral state, and that she was NOT a perpetual virgin?Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-70209394912558262002009-09-28T13:35:37.890+01:002009-09-28T13:35:37.890+01:00Hi Jennie,
Clement is being a bit complicated. F...Hi Jennie,<br /><br />Clement is being a bit complicated. First of all, note that "puerperal" is the word, and not "perpetual." Puerperal means basically post-natal.<br /><br />As everyone knows, Mary conceived as a virgin. Later she gave birth to Christ. If a normal baby were to come out the birth canal of a woman whose virginity was intact, the baby himself would break Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-55910713198729429132009-09-27T23:37:45.502+01:002009-09-27T23:37:45.502+01:00Turretinfan,
I have a question or two about the qu...Turretinfan,<br />I have a question or two about the quote from Clement in your post. I haven't read much of the Church Fathers so I'm not used to the way they speak, and don't have an overall idea of what each one believes, so I am confused about what Clement is trying to say about Mary. Is he saying that he believes Mary is a perpetual virgin, and that she did not give birth Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-32159491133699335792009-09-26T15:52:20.632+01:002009-09-26T15:52:20.632+01:00Turretinfan,
that the very Scriptures were even ar...Turretinfan,<br /><b>that the very Scriptures were even arranged by the will of God in such a manner as to furnish materials for heretics, inasmuch as I read that “there must be heresies,” [1 Cor. xi. 19.]</b><br />This, the fact that God uses His word to give light but also to confirm those who love darkness, should make us fear God, but it probably will only serve to separate those who already Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.com