tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post6257763244840210731..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Children Punished for a Parent's SinsTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-79766904454163091512008-08-26T14:12:00.000+01:002008-08-26T14:12:00.000+01:00Michael,Note that even believing, redeemed, childr...Michael,<BR/><BR/>Note that even believing, redeemed, children may still suffer the consequences of another's sin. Until God remakes the earth, believers remain in the soup...TheoJunkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445444858090314944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-71025081698133494082008-08-25T23:31:00.000+01:002008-08-25T23:31:00.000+01:00TheoJyour comment is: ....[[It seems to me that Ch...TheoJ<BR/><BR/>your comment is: ....[[It seems to me that Christ is addressing Christians (real ones, though distracted and in error) in Revelation.]]....<BR/><BR/>....To which I heartily say, AMEN!<BR/><BR/>The devils believe and are going to be tormented in the everpresent everlasting wrath of God in what we know as "hell" once they get there.<BR/><BR/>Christ mentions more about hell and that Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-3858269364149883952008-08-25T21:38:00.000+01:002008-08-25T21:38:00.000+01:00Michael,I'm not quite sure I follow where you are ...Michael,<BR/><BR/>I'm not quite sure I follow where you are going with your recent comment.<BR/><BR/>It appears to me that the issue with the 7 churches in Revelation is one of sanctification (i.e., correcting corporate direction/ doctrine/ leadership/ etc)... but is not primarily an issue of their regenerated state (if at all). It seems to me that Christ is addressing Christians (real ones, TheoJunkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445444858090314944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-52831676121905642292008-08-25T19:10:00.000+01:002008-08-25T19:10:00.000+01:00Yes TheoJ, that is why I cited Simeon.Job would be...Yes TheoJ, that is why I cited Simeon.<BR/><BR/>Job would be another example of this righteous and devout characterization of one of Adam's race.<BR/><BR/>Daniel another, and, and, and.<BR/><BR/>The point is, we were all born of Adam and what happened to Adam comes upon us the moment of our own conception and that not of ourselves. I embrace your idea of infancy here.<BR/><BR/>Just as I had no Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-61984684636518515742008-08-25T18:29:00.000+01:002008-08-25T18:29:00.000+01:00Michael,I'm seeing a lot of information about deat...Michael,<BR/><BR/>I'm seeing a lot of information about death... and not a lot of information about imputed guilt for another's sin acts.<BR/><BR/>As I know we would agree, there are two ways that the bible speaks of "death/being dead". One of them is the consequences of sin (i.e., the just punishment, the wages, of sin). <BR/><BR/>But the other concept of "death/being dead" deals with our TheoJunkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445444858090314944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-60440365894907033742008-08-25T18:00:00.000+01:002008-08-25T18:00:00.000+01:00TheoJ, ....as to your question, I might point you ...TheoJ, <BR/><BR/>....as to your question, I might point you to this clear verse of one's "own" sins if I understand your question? [Do any of the scriptures you presented (or any others that you would like to add), suggest that the punished children were free of personal sin?]:::><BR/><BR/><BR/>Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-30152736399324172672008-08-25T16:23:00.000+01:002008-08-25T16:23:00.000+01:00TJ:As always, I'd be delighted to read your though...TJ:<BR/><BR/>As always, I'd be delighted to read your thoughts on how that could possibly be.<BR/><BR/>Your idea about hosting it on your own blog is also a good one: it would probably take me quite a while to think it through before approving it for publication here. :) So your blog would be the more expedient path, though I certainly wouldn't view it as filler.<BR/><BR/>-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-73567742240052714492008-08-25T16:16:00.000+01:002008-08-25T16:16:00.000+01:00TF,I have pondered previously (and recently again ...TF,<BR/><BR/>I have pondered previously (and recently again this morning even) over Romans 5. I think it is saying something slightly different than "imputation of Adam's sin act and/or his personal guilt for that act". <BR/><BR/>It seems to me that Adam's federal headship is not contingent upon imputation of the guilt of his sin act. (And, it would seem also that this does not impact the dualTheoJunkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445444858090314944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-30283237268675171152008-08-25T15:54:00.000+01:002008-08-25T15:54:00.000+01:00TJ:Some things are more clear than others. In thi...TJ:<BR/><BR/>Some things are more clear than others. In this case, one of the more clear passages would be Romans 5:<BR/><BR/>Romans 5:14 Nevertheless <B>death reigned from Adam to Moses</B>, even <B>over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression</B>, who is the figure of him that was to come. <BR/><BR/>That doesn't mean that I expect you to automatically agree now Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-13181587750981788702008-08-25T15:46:00.000+01:002008-08-25T15:46:00.000+01:00TF,I will look for your response.In the interim, I...TF,<BR/><BR/>I will look for your response.<BR/><BR/>In the interim, I would like to emphasize that I <B>affirm</B> the federal headship of Adam.<BR/><BR/>The only thing I am not seeing in scripture is the imputation of his precise sin act (and so also the guilt for that precise sin act) to his progeny. <BR/><BR/>I'll also mention-- lest I be lumped in with those who might obviate the Gospel in TheoJunkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445444858090314944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-65414126210233480752008-08-25T15:27:00.000+01:002008-08-25T15:27:00.000+01:00Anonymous, Godith, and Theojunkie,I have scheduled...Anonymous, Godith, and Theojunkie,<BR/><BR/>I have scheduled a response to your comments to be released as a separate post on my blog later today.<BR/><BR/>-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-77856156239346588882008-08-25T13:35:00.000+01:002008-08-25T13:35:00.000+01:00Godith:Yes, Scripture interprets Scripture.-Turret...Godith:<BR/><BR/>Yes, Scripture interprets Scripture.<BR/><BR/>-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-27639956412697493642008-08-25T12:42:00.000+01:002008-08-25T12:42:00.000+01:00John 9 is another passage to deal with in regard t...John 9 is another passage to deal with in regard to this topic. The man born blind.<BR/>--GodithAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-91517544207283146842008-08-25T10:52:00.000+01:002008-08-25T10:52:00.000+01:00TF,Posting again to subscribe.ThanksTF,<BR/><BR/>Posting again to subscribe.<BR/><BR/>ThanksTheoJunkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445444858090314944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-10439479191109480582008-08-25T10:16:00.000+01:002008-08-25T10:16:00.000+01:00Hmm...I am reluctant to trust the appearance of th...Hmm...<BR/><BR/>I am reluctant to trust the appearance of the fallen Creation (and it's fallen inhabitants) as evidence about what is just and what is not. Therefore it would seem wise to stay with the words of scripture in this matter.<BR/><BR/>Do any of the scriptures you presented (or any others that you would like to add), suggest that the punished children were free of personal sin?<BR/><BRTheoJunkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445444858090314944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-2743206112658086852008-08-25T01:14:00.000+01:002008-08-25T01:14:00.000+01:00TF, might I add one obvious punishment of a Son, a...TF, <BR/><BR/>might I add one obvious punishment of a Son, albeit, it's a stretch?<BR/><BR/>Our Gracious Heavenly Father punished Christ, His Own Son so that we, His Children do not have to suffer our just fate!<BR/><BR/>Here is what Moses did:<BR/><BR/>Deu 31:30 Then Moses spoke the words of this song until they were finished, in the ears of all the assembly of Israel: <BR/><BR/><BR/><..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-48020540828090886972008-08-24T20:49:00.000+01:002008-08-24T20:49:00.000+01:00Scripture should explain Scripture. The Bible at f...Scripture should explain Scripture. The Bible at first often seems to give only a little information<BR/>which it later supplements. Thus, Genesis 11:31 is not explicit,so we must understand it in the light of Genesis 14:14. So, too, when I John 4:8 says that God is love, we do not find here the complete Scripture doctrine of God. We must supplement this verse with what the remainder of ScriptureAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-38460793876347746192008-08-24T20:40:00.000+01:002008-08-24T20:40:00.000+01:00You never dealt with a very important passage, Eze...You never dealt with a very important passage, Ezek. 18.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com