tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post6343484785520553834..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: "Call No Man 'Father' or 'Teacher'"Turretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-20013563330848175652012-03-26T01:21:49.923+01:002012-03-26T01:21:49.923+01:00The primary problem is the claimed office, allegin...The primary problem is the claimed office, alleging universal jurisdiction and infallibility. None of the Pharisees abused their spiritual fatherhood that badly. If their abuse was bad, Rome's is worse.<br /><br />Of course, if Jesus was instituting the papacy, he would have said, "for one is your Father in heaven, and one is your pope on earth."turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-64273484681604906692012-03-25T16:07:53.750+01:002012-03-25T16:07:53.750+01:00I agree that spiritual fatherhood can be abused. H...I agree that spiritual fatherhood can be abused. However, I do not think that the Chair of Peter -- in and of itself -- constitutes such an abuse. There have indeed been sinful popes who hurt the flock of God, but such instances are the fault of individuals, not the office.Philip Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-1939242527049113912012-03-25T05:09:02.518+01:002012-03-25T05:09:02.518+01:00I thought your initial argument was that the Phari...I thought your initial argument was that the Pharisees practiced a spiritual fatherhood that was inappropriate. Surely you don't think that Jesus was referring to physical fatherhood. If, as you claim, "Spiritual fatherhood among men is not a usurpation of the supreme paternity of the Eternal Father," then why did Jesus complain?<br /><br />I'm certainly not suggesting that <iturretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-49599706347788730642012-03-25T05:05:03.383+01:002012-03-25T05:05:03.383+01:00"So, Jesus was wrong?"
No, you simply m..."So, Jesus was wrong?"<br /><br />No, you simply misunderstand what He meant. You cannot break through the letter to the spirit. The words of Saint Paul and Saint John make that plain enough.Philip Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-68910748166597715622012-03-25T00:05:42.840+00:002012-03-25T00:05:42.840+00:00"Greater than these" would seem to be li..."Greater than these" would seem to be limited to a class.<br /><br />But also note - what pope in 500 years has (during his life) performed any notable miracle? <br /><br />As for the teaching function of ordinary people, that's not what the pope claims. He claims a special, superior authority. In fact, no one makes greater claims except someone who literally claims to be God turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-49399942802963273432012-03-25T00:03:38.065+00:002012-03-25T00:03:38.065+00:00"Spiritual fatherhood among men is not a usur..."Spiritual fatherhood among men is not a usurpation of the supreme paternity of the Eternal Father."<br /><br />So, Jesus was wrong?turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-63148141084761722052012-03-25T00:02:01.862+00:002012-03-25T00:02:01.862+00:00Spiritual fatherhood among men is not a usurpation...Spiritual fatherhood among men is not a usurpation of the supreme paternity of the Eternal Father. Rather, our human spiritual fathers are analogues by which we come to better appreciate and more intimately understand the Divine Father.Philip Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-74298972409706895642012-03-24T23:57:24.681+00:002012-03-24T23:57:24.681+00:00TF,
The Champion is the Spirit, the Comforter, th...TF,<br /><br />The Champion is the Spirit, the Comforter, the Paraclete, the Ghost. <br /><br />As for doing greater works: "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father" (John 14:12). <br /><br />I don't see how I reinforce your point. The pope is a spiritual father. Philip Judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-79613925935721700732012-03-24T23:44:20.722+00:002012-03-24T23:44:20.722+00:00I think you are mostly reinforcing my point, Mr. J...I think you are mostly reinforcing my point, Mr. Jude.<br /><br />And Jesus did famously complain:<br /><br />Luke 11:52<br />Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. <br /><br />Of course, that doesn't correspond to the <i>Roman conception</i> of the keys, but it does fit with what Jesus turretinfannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-69160798317161263862012-03-24T23:36:06.139+00:002012-03-24T23:36:06.139+00:00None of the pharisees or scribes were given the Ke...None of the pharisees or scribes were given the Keys of the Kingdom, nor granted the Champion which allows for greater deeds than those performed by Jesus Himself. The pope is called father because he is a model after which we form ourselves. He is our model only inasmuch as he is a servant of God. Such "spiritual fatherhood" was known already in apostolic times and has been refined Philip Judenoreply@blogger.com