tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post7247751017059272864..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Beckwith's Bait and SwitchTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-46375349486728007302010-01-24T12:20:58.942+00:002010-01-24T12:20:58.942+00:00"But the belief that the Bible consists only ..."But the belief that the Bible consists only of 66 books is not a claim of Scripture—since one cannot find the list in it—but a claim about Scripture as a whole.<br />One cannot find the list in it, only in the sense that one cannot find the list of Psalms in the book of Psalms. In other words, the list is not given as such. However, a list may readily be generated from the Bible or from thejohn martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-16239998167796303672010-01-24T12:13:43.753+00:002010-01-24T12:13:43.753+00:00This is the problem with SS. SS says we begin with...This is the problem with SS. SS says we begin with scripture as a given, yet scripture cannot be an axiomatic beginning or given, like we see in maths, of say for example, the natural truth of 1=1. <br /><br />This argument is developed as follows – <br /><br />1. SS requires a prior definition of what it means for a text to be inspired. <br />2. God moves man co-naturally for man to write any john martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660610295915450085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-44307908909730170702010-01-24T04:17:15.034+00:002010-01-24T04:17:15.034+00:00And...I posted a response to John on his blog that...And...I posted a response to John on his blog that he hasn't approved.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008766411494290281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-42080312720151354742010-01-23T13:15:02.439+00:002010-01-23T13:15:02.439+00:00Summarizing the various accusations for those who ...Summarizing the various accusations for those who don't want to go through the whole sordid mess at the other link. <br /><br />Here are what individuals besides myself have said of the way that you interact:<br /><br /><i>You seem to be equivocating ...<br /><br />You apologized for "not being clear" but the rejoinder was "this was not an issue of clarity but rather of John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-32669551520750348972010-01-23T12:43:44.588+00:002010-01-23T12:43:44.588+00:00At TF's request, I have gone through the threa...At TF's request, I have gone through the thread which Sean and I have been discussing, and I've collected many of the instances in which various individuals have accused him of misrepresenting, equivocating, not presenting something truthfully, etc. (The terminology changes, but it all describes the same inability that I've perceived in Sean in which he repeatedly fails represent the John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-75421448885910336932010-01-22T19:01:35.303+00:002010-01-22T19:01:35.303+00:00JB,
thanks for you direct reply.
My point was we...JB,<br /><br />thanks for you direct reply.<br /><br />My point was well taken then by you.<br /><br />I did want to open up to the equivocation of the FB article that TF properly with a even hand unraveled.<br /><br />It is interesting that "Constantine" in his remarks got FB's quick reply over at his site.<br /><br />Here's Constantine's conclusion and for me, very Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-32187918465746730972010-01-22T17:12:42.977+00:002010-01-22T17:12:42.977+00:00SP:
It looks to me like JB's criticism is pre...SP:<br /><br />It looks to me like JB's criticism is pretty much based specifically on his experience with you and his perception that you misrepresent things on a frequent basis. There's no reason (that I've seen) to convert that into him having hatred etc.<br /><br />That said, I'd prefer if this discussion of the character of JB and SP (in general terms) were discontinued in Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-11445421767693730622010-01-22T14:55:51.718+00:002010-01-22T14:55:51.718+00:00John,
You said that I ‘lied.’ Now show me where ...John,<br /><br />You said that I ‘lied.’ Now show me where I ‘lied.’ <br /><br />There is no difference between saying that I “lied” and calling me a “liar,” especially when in the same breath you say that I am the ‘least honest individual’ you have ever debated online. <br /><br />Stop trying to hid behind the minutia and man up and produce the ‘lists’ of lies that you promised on January 8th.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008766411494290281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-56450785573343461932010-01-22T09:55:39.140+00:002010-01-22T09:55:39.140+00:00Natamllc - I've interacted with Sean for a lon...Natamllc - I've interacted with Sean for a long time -- the "method" he employs is constantly to not address what the person is actually saying, not to admit "you are saying 'A", but he will constantly, constantly say, "you are saying 'A', so that mean's you are really saying 'A + x" ...<br /><br />He did it here: Louis had quotes from Popes John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-4920846682424012262010-01-22T04:28:20.665+00:002010-01-22T04:28:20.665+00:00"The question for me to ask then is, "is..."The question for me to ask then is, "is equivocate" a gentleman's way of saying you lied?"<br /><br />It can be. Sometimes, however, people equivocate unintentional. It is as if they lose their way in the forest of words, and think they recognize one tree when, in fact, its another.<br /><br />Beckwith appears to be rather new to the theology scene, and may perhaps Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-12239357753218082992010-01-22T02:47:45.606+00:002010-01-22T02:47:45.606+00:00And, for a wretch like me, for one to side with Be...And, for a wretch like me, for one to side with Beckwith's bait and switch tactics as clearly proven by this article, I would be very cautious of anyone siding with the switch side!<br /><br />Does anyone else have that wretched feeling?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-8812585879059423562010-01-22T02:45:39.631+00:002010-01-22T02:45:39.631+00:00The question for me to ask then is, "is equiv...The question for me to ask then is, "is equivocate" a gentleman's way of saying you lied?<br /><br />If you lied aren't you then a liar?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-44796451482821850122010-01-22T02:44:34.408+00:002010-01-22T02:44:34.408+00:00Finding some of what is going on in here, I have t...Finding some of what is going on in here, I have to paste from merriam webster dictionary:<br /><br />Date: 1590<br />1 : to use equivocal language especially with intent to deceive<br />2 : to avoid committing oneself in what one says<br /><br />synonyms see lieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-23538494829995042862010-01-22T00:54:57.918+00:002010-01-22T00:54:57.918+00:00Sean -- don't quote yourself blaming me for ca...Sean -- don't quote yourself blaming me for calling you a liar. Produce a link with me saying the word. Until you do, it's just another one of your exaggerations/mischaracterizations/stretching the truth/facts, etc.<br /><br />My thread at PB is fully documented. I'm glad you're reading that.John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-6025776095549866412010-01-22T00:27:48.252+00:002010-01-22T00:27:48.252+00:00Sorry TF for getting sucked in to the Bugay black ...Sorry TF for getting sucked in to the Bugay black hole on your blog.Blogahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08390152245638471831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-50838590296385183832010-01-22T00:23:11.152+00:002010-01-22T00:23:11.152+00:00I've recently linked to a thread at Greenbaggi...<b>I've recently linked to a thread at Greenbaggins when no fewer than six individuals cited you for having lied, fudged, mis-stated, or evaded something.</b><br /><br /><a href="http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/01/erasmus-words-could-beckwith-cross-and.html" rel="nofollow">Here.</a><br /><br />This is also the thread where you <b>promised</b> to prove my lying.<br /><br />You said: <i>InBlogahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08390152245638471831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-33084523405245694862010-01-21T22:43:52.287+00:002010-01-21T22:43:52.287+00:00Two things Sean. I've never said "liar.&q...Two things Sean. I've never said "liar." I've always said "misrepresent, fudge, etc." You need to show me an instance where I said "liar." <br /><br />Second, you should not be in such a hurry to have this list produced. But then again, you have no shame. You yourself have just now been accused of misattributing, and by the grace of God you have admitted thatJohn Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-34181654155827368042010-01-21T22:32:47.388+00:002010-01-21T22:32:47.388+00:00John,
So, about a month ago you made a big fuss a...John,<br /><br />So, about a month ago you made a big fuss and accused me of being a liar.<br /><br />Since then I have asked you repetedly to show me just one instance where I lied.<br /><br />Still waiting...<br /><br />If Person A calls Person B a liar but cannot show even one instance of a lie that Person B told...what does that make Person A? <br /><br />And, pretty cool of you to jump on SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008766411494290281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-8972528389099403072010-01-21T22:13:24.535+00:002010-01-21T22:13:24.535+00:00than sorry for making something out of nothing.
S...<i>than sorry for making something out of nothing.</i><br /><br />So here by your own admission you have leapt to unwarranted conclusions and misattributed something that was not intended. What a surprise.John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-50077984602857254202010-01-21T21:21:41.201+00:002010-01-21T21:21:41.201+00:00Ok Louis.
If all that you meant by this statement...Ok Louis.<br /><br />If all that you meant by this statement, <i>"Yes, and it is the pope who claims to be Christ on earth"</i>>, is that a Pope as Vicar of Christ and including the understanding of Vicar of Christ professed by the Catholic Church has used language consistent with that understanding...than sorry for making something out of nothing.<br /><br />I must confess that I Blogahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08390152245638471831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-32126665895858518832010-01-21T21:02:28.144+00:002010-01-21T21:02:28.144+00:00SP/Blogohan,
You said: "I can easily say tha...SP/Blogohan,<br /><br />You said: "I can easily say that no pope ever claimed to be the 2nd person of the Trinity."<br /><br />The issue was whether the pope claimed to be "Christ on earth". I gave no theological content to that statement, merely that he claimed to be Christ on earth.<br /><br />Now, you have already been provided with the theological background to that claim louishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05447894010657835114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-52355105600659148552010-01-21T20:48:20.949+00:002010-01-21T20:48:20.949+00:00TurretinFan,
I've done my best to respond to ...TurretinFan,<br /><br />I've done my best to respond to your post here (http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com/2010/01/beckwith-v-turretinfan-on-sola.html). Feel free to take a look and let me know what you think, if you'd like. Thanks!Joe Heschmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-59841030812629384692010-01-21T20:30:56.700+00:002010-01-21T20:30:56.700+00:00SP, previously: "- Is Christ not the 2nd pers...SP, previously: "- Is Christ not the 2nd person of the Trinity?"Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-18509563999916568262010-01-21T20:29:51.058+00:002010-01-21T20:29:51.058+00:00SP is Blogahon...under wife's sign in.SP is Blogahon...under wife's sign in.Blogahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08390152245638471831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-10012384081204378252010-01-21T20:28:37.742+00:002010-01-21T20:28:37.742+00:00louis,
I can easily say that no pope ever claimed...louis,<br /><br />I can easily say that no pope ever claimed to be the 2nd person of the Trinity. <br /><br />But, by all means start a thread.Blogahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08390152245638471831noreply@blogger.com