tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post7343734524078797829..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Visualizing the Flow of Communication and Ultimate InterpretersTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-54950410337887144172012-07-26T14:26:00.139+01:002012-07-26T14:26:00.139+01:00No doudt fully authorised elders can have a possit...No doudt fully authorised elders can have a possitive out come, but don't forget we have the internet "now" When directed by the all knowing one can receive very high degrees..Pianomannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-78901732793475642992009-12-13T14:07:15.753+00:002009-12-13T14:07:15.753+00:00That said, of course, God is better at teaching th...That said, of course, God is better at teaching than men are.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-79621280566817057662009-12-13T14:06:37.815+00:002009-12-13T14:06:37.815+00:00Sorry for the publication delay.
There's no d...Sorry for the publication delay.<br /><br />There's no difference between two things that are effective as to the fact that they are effective, naturally.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-57011863172517313562009-12-13T04:10:06.979+00:002009-12-13T04:10:06.979+00:00I realize you've been busy dealing with heavie...I realize you've been busy dealing with heavier hitters like Mr. Cross and Mr. Troutman, but I wondered if you would be posting and responding to the most recent comments I made on this thread. Whether yea or nay, would you be so kind as to send me copies, I seem to have inadvertantly deleted them. Thanks.Mike Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854620298988801571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-7662953096805942302009-12-05T20:56:28.502+00:002009-12-05T20:56:28.502+00:00Indeed, it is an awful thing for a sinner to fall ...Indeed, it is an awful thing for a sinner to fall in the hands of an angry God. Noone comes away from a direct encounter unscathed (to his very core). Of course I made my comment about Adam and Moses "sardonically," that is, in jest. <br /><br />As to the larger point, God teaches through His elders, and God teaches (whether rarely or frequently) immediately. There is no "better&Mike Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854620298988801571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-13523886575202538702009-12-05T13:25:16.222+00:002009-12-05T13:25:16.222+00:00Mike:
You might as well point out that Peter deni...Mike:<br /><br />You might as well point out that Peter denied Jesus thrice after sitting under the personal ministry of the Son.<br /><br />And, despite your protests to the contrary, I did address the fact that the Scriptures are not simply a mediate mechanism but the very word of God.<br /><br />Your and Bryan's argument from Providence is absurd in that you cannot reasonably deny that GodTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-58747681762757048122009-12-05T03:16:04.550+00:002009-12-05T03:16:04.550+00:00As an aside, I sardonically note that Adam was kic...As an aside, I sardonically note that Adam was kicked out of Eden and Moses was denied entry into the Promised Land after their respective direct encounters with God.Mike Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854620298988801571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-23904792863102873162009-12-05T03:11:05.478+00:002009-12-05T03:11:05.478+00:00"Anyone who thinks that an elder can communic..."Anyone who thinks that an elder can communicate God's word better than God can communicate it himself is ... well ... hard to persuade of even the simplest things." <br /><br />I notice you chose not to address His mediate teaching through inspired writers. Interesting. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on why you insist on bifurcating God teaching and God teaching through His Mike Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854620298988801571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-83910480791744352242009-12-05T02:29:15.630+00:002009-12-05T02:29:15.630+00:00Dan:
Feel free to create an improved chart based ...Dan:<br /><br />Feel free to create an improved chart based on mine!<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-49451979344415427192009-12-05T02:10:22.203+00:002009-12-05T02:10:22.203+00:00Better from only the standpoint of more clearly un...Better from only the standpoint of more clearly understanding what is told, not better in terms of God's overall purposes. That objection, incidentally, is the same as Bryan's objection. God has other things in mind than having men in this life have the best possible understanding.<br /><br />Anyone who thinks that an elder can communicate God's word better than God can communicate Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-3059241791741306622009-12-05T01:47:11.282+00:002009-12-05T01:47:11.282+00:00TF, it seems to me that you take what amounts to a...TF, it seems to me that you take what amounts to a position that it would be better for fallen men to dialogue with God than have Him teach them through His chosen (mediate) means. I doubt that is what you intended. But perhaps it is. If that is better, though, then why did He establish the office of elder? Why inspire the Scriptures? Why not choose the "better" path and directly, Mike Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03604632830015286454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-91070855766773900492009-12-05T01:03:05.782+00:002009-12-05T01:03:05.782+00:00Is Cross talking about the inner witness of the Ho...Is Cross talking about the inner witness of the Holy Spirit? If so, it's not the same as the RCC teaching regarding the infallibility of the church. <br /><br />BTW, the chart it good, but would be better if it depicted the roles of Christ and the Spirit.<br /><br />God be with you,<br />DanGodismyjudgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05310455924556730920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-60155260995102427792009-12-05T00:46:05.310+00:002009-12-05T00:46:05.310+00:00TF,
this comment or rather Scriptural reference i...TF,<br /><br />this comment or rather Scriptural reference is for P. U. and his response:::><br /><br />Act 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. <br /><br /><br />Four things, one, God, two, the word of His Grace, three, builds up the Believer, four, imparts an Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-28824051639228469492009-12-04T22:18:22.157+00:002009-12-04T22:18:22.157+00:00Bryan:
That's a snappy response, but not real...Bryan:<br /><br />That's a snappy response, but not really to the point. After all, God who gave us the Bible is the same God who talked to Adam. <br /><br />Nevertheless, it's surprising to hear you argue that the Bible is "better" (in any sense relevant to our conversation) than dialogue with God.<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-41953671982362599032009-12-04T21:29:39.753+00:002009-12-04T21:29:39.753+00:00TF,
But who in their right mind doubts that it wo...TF,<br /><br /><i>But who in their right mind doubts that it would be better to receive God's word directly from God rather than through some other intermediate mechanism?</i><br /><br />God. (Otherwise there wouldn't be a Bible.)<br /><br />In the peace of Christ,<br /><br />- BryanBryan Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13269970389157868131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-69836663741172812612009-12-04T19:36:16.263+00:002009-12-04T19:36:16.263+00:00I would go one step further in here and point to a...I would go one step further in here and point to a phenomenon of interaction between Jesus, "Son of Man" and the Devil himself and the reasons why Satan lost the battle at that time.<br /><br />If the reader can grasp this "reality", one can see the "error" of the RCC and why there is such a separation that began again at the Reformation period of Martin Luther and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-40953647476829960532009-12-04T19:12:23.469+00:002009-12-04T19:12:23.469+00:00I would answer these last two questions:
But who ...I would answer these last two questions:<br /><br />But who in their right mind doubts that it would be better to receive God's word directly from God rather than through some other intermediate mechanism? <br /><br />[NO ONE WOULD EXCEPT THOSE DECEIVED BY THEIR FLESH, THE WORLD AND THE DEVILS' DOCTRINES]<br /><br />How does the inescapable reality that you will have to interpret what youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-10897743656282497962009-12-04T18:23:59.522+00:002009-12-04T18:23:59.522+00:00I think that about sums it up. The Holy Spirit is ...I think that about sums it up. The Holy Spirit is able to communicate directly with His people, who are able to hear His voice. Nice short response to that really long post on Bryan Cross's blog.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-43421273871832392492009-12-04T17:31:24.215+00:002009-12-04T17:31:24.215+00:00Paul Helm is doing a multi-part piece on nature vs...Paul Helm is doing a multi-part piece on nature vs. grace. In it he is using Turretin. One of the things T said was that we use our emotions, for we cannot do without them, to help to imform us in our interpretation. In light of that, even when an authority claims exclusivity, it in reality never is the last link, but the final one is the exclusive domain of the hearing interpreter. The RCC mightStrong Towerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13834108238546908018noreply@blogger.com