tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post7482745619846770345..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Manhattan Declaration - Partial RoundupTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-532340866815507112009-12-07T14:13:18.336+00:002009-12-07T14:13:18.336+00:00TU&D:
Reardon's characterization, "t...TU&D:<br /><br />Reardon's characterization, "their evident presumption that Christians, when they speak in public, should limit their discourse to the proclamation of the Gospel and the summons to repentance." is way off.<br /><br />But you still haven't answered my question, TU&D. Do you believe that Rome preaches a false gospel?<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-78320915369003857412009-12-06T23:24:17.493+00:002009-12-06T23:24:17.493+00:00Fr. Patrick Henry Reardon: "We may take the ...<b>Fr. Patrick Henry Reardon</b>: <i>"We may take the example of the Evangelical spokesman, John MacArthur, Jr. His complaint was very simple: The Manhattan Declaration scans only the symptoms of these social evils but neglects to address their root cause. That is to say, this document fails to proclaim the Gospel of salvation, which is the sole remedy for every social ill.<br /><br />The Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-18258771953541619542009-12-03T16:08:26.496+00:002009-12-03T16:08:26.496+00:00Anon, I have been intrigued with your responses in...Anon, I have been intrigued with your responses in here.<br /><br />You stated: "....The Manhattan Declaration usurps God's authority....".<br /><br />I would say, "no", the powers of the rulers and authorities in heavenly places usurp God's authority and it ends up looking like the Manhattan Declaration.<br /><br />I hear your heart a little bit and would venture a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-68049075200107485192009-12-03T12:29:22.422+00:002009-12-03T12:29:22.422+00:00http://www.whitehorseinn.org/archives/250.html
The...http://www.whitehorseinn.org/archives/250.html<br />Their very both-sides-of-their-mouth take on the MD. <br />GodithAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-23020608756628824212009-12-03T07:30:36.744+00:002009-12-03T07:30:36.744+00:00The Manhattan Declaration usurps God's authori...The Manhattan Declaration usurps God's authority. It is boisterous and will not save one soul but have quite the opposite will drive more of those who surround me from ever comprehending and trusting in the way. I do care; therefore I will never sign such a document and further am grateful to those who counsel against it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-89186763885865309892009-12-03T07:01:00.452+00:002009-12-03T07:01:00.452+00:00Thank you for your response.
The fire in my belly...Thank you for your response.<br /><br />The fire in my belly has to do with saving souls which has never been accomplished with a big stick. I truly believe in the way of the Lord. My relationship with people takes more time and relies on God to show me the way. The truth becomes evident and cannot be forced. The MD is impatient, defers to man's law over God, is shamefully forceful and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-49967514356653102432009-12-03T01:22:41.194+00:002009-12-03T01:22:41.194+00:00Anon:
1) You don't seem to have answered my q...Anon:<br /><br />1) You don't seem to have answered my question regarding marriage. Other questions about failed marriages are not on the table.<br /><br />2) Killing a child is more offensive than preventing a woman from killing a child.<br /><br />3) I don't think this document will have any impact on the separation of church and state, and I wouldn't be the least bit concerned if Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-16327849859365768522009-12-02T19:57:21.174+00:002009-12-02T19:57:21.174+00:00Regarding redefining a marriage; Should we not be ...Regarding redefining a marriage; Should we not be more focused on sanctity of marriage by banning divorce or encouraging a more severe humiliation of those who fail a marriage? To fight the decay of marriages from this abhorrent position is almost more insulting than abomination itself. <br /><br />And, to ultimately put to risk what was long and hard fought for; separation between church and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-34059914375532142302009-12-02T19:45:26.514+00:002009-12-02T19:45:26.514+00:00Regarding Abortion: No, I worry that a person or m...Regarding Abortion: No, I worry that a person or man made law other than God counsels a women who may be drawn to make a decision - I find this extremely offensive and have for 57 years. The separation of Church and State allows those who are called to be disciples and who truly believe in God let God make these occasions available. Otherwise, you don't really have an opportunity to witness Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-17101967883761067802009-12-02T18:43:34.532+00:002009-12-02T18:43:34.532+00:00Are you worried that abortion might be outlawed an...Are you worried that abortion might be outlawed and that marriage might not be redefined?<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-7927081183545276452009-12-02T18:37:10.200+00:002009-12-02T18:37:10.200+00:00Read further: “The goal of those of us who drafted...Read further: “The goal of those of us who drafted and signed the document is 'not' just to get a lot of names on a manifesto, gratifying though that is. We are seeking to build a movement - hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of Catholic, Evangelical, and Eastern Orthodox Christians who will stand together alongside other men and women of goodwill in defense of foundational Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-387399626978123792009-12-02T16:09:51.472+00:002009-12-02T16:09:51.472+00:00As far as I know, it can't be used that way.As far as I know, it can't be used that way.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-24825881218255432652009-12-02T15:52:13.950+00:002009-12-02T15:52:13.950+00:00Thank you; but what concerns me is the fact that t...Thank you; but what concerns me is the fact that this could be used, not be congress other than as a threat to representatives of congress and with their constituency (which doesn't concern me) but rather as a petition on the federal level and within the federal courts. If so, this does concern me and for good reasons. With a little research, I found that many separate on each of the issuesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-74956744451731560212009-12-02T13:43:12.639+00:002009-12-02T13:43:12.639+00:00No, Anonymous. It is divisive, but it is not part...No, Anonymous. It is divisive, but it is not particularly dangerous. It certainly doesn't threaten the separation of church and state. And the Constitution was only aimed at preventing established religion at a national level - at the time most of the colonies had their own established religions. The point was not to crush out the states' rights, not to make a secular nation.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-62023005221457071472009-12-02T13:23:47.746+00:002009-12-02T13:23:47.746+00:00The Scriptures also declare that it is better to o...The Scriptures also declare that it is better to obey God than man, when the two are in conflict.<br /><br />That part of your objection is unwarranted.<br /><br />And technically, it says "evangelicals" not "fundamentalists." There is a difference: "evangelicals" is a much broader category.<br /><br />It is interesting that you view the document as underinclusive, Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-19659464179678986402009-12-02T06:57:29.951+00:002009-12-02T06:57:29.951+00:00Magnum Serpentine will not sign (Independent, Cent...Magnum Serpentine will not sign (Independent, Center-Left Christian) because of Romans 13 1-2 (NIV) which in essense says obey government. Manhattan Declaration clearly states that civil disobedience is ok. I oppose this for the reason stated above and because During bush administration church said obey bush and government. During President Obama church says dis-obey. Another reason to oppose Magnum Serpentinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09794028682431910448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-89411326500286227252009-12-02T00:49:49.144+00:002009-12-02T00:49:49.144+00:00You argue that this document is not divisive; whom...You argue that this document is not divisive; whom does it not include?<br /><br />You argue that this document doesn't present a threat to the Wall between Church & State. I insist that by its very nature which requires an accounting of signatures, it is therefore also a petition.<br /><br />I will not sign it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-63569704042819601542009-12-01T23:23:36.364+00:002009-12-01T23:23:36.364+00:00No it isn't and no it doesn't.No it isn't and no it doesn't.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-14923396085150852882009-12-01T22:41:07.715+00:002009-12-01T22:41:07.715+00:00Theses: The Manhattan Declaration is a dangerous a...Theses: The Manhattan Declaration is a dangerous and divisive document which threatens the Wall between Church and State. This Wall is our Constitutional heritage and one that we fought hard and many innocents died for. This carrot puts us at risk of another national religion and monarchy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-62412146453666870222009-12-01T21:55:54.532+00:002009-12-01T21:55:54.532+00:00No - I just left off the "ic" in Challie...No - I just left off the "ic" in Challies' case. The Calvinistic/Reformed distinction was intentional, as I wouldn't view some of those guys as meaningfully Reformed, and others I'm just unsure about. I'm sure Dr. White is reformed, notwithstanding how much I generally like R. Scott Clark.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-30281676841610793992009-12-01T19:44:52.544+00:002009-12-01T19:44:52.544+00:00For the record, I don't think Jason Engwer is ...For the record, I don't think Jason Engwer is Reformed. I think he's Ev-Free and a few-point Calvinist. <br /><br />Also, and please excuse the pedantry if you find it excessive, was there any reason you sometimes used "Calvinistic" and sometimes "Calvinist"? Just curious.Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-70167540318470103342009-11-30T22:09:12.243+00:002009-11-30T22:09:12.243+00:00TF:
Are you saying "debatable" or "...TF:<br /><br />Are you saying "debatable" or "detestable?"Pilgrimsarbourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18046918223325823689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-5362547398158991502009-11-30T17:31:16.297+00:002009-11-30T17:31:16.297+00:00#John:
I provided the evidence for what I said, w...#John:<br /><br />I provided the evidence for what I said, which was that Birch views the interpretation of that verse in Micah as less detable than the gospel.<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-54360769706983146392009-11-30T17:02:58.843+00:002009-11-30T17:02:58.843+00:00Turretinfan unnecessarily makes a derogatory comme...Turretinfan unnecessarily makes a derogatory comment about W. Birch. Birch does not imply that the gospel is negotiable, nor does he ever state so on his own blog.<br /><br />regards<br />#JohnJohn I.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10739187126377072292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-2650164724649898312009-11-30T13:27:56.654+00:002009-11-30T13:27:56.654+00:00TU&D:
No, I think Mohler, Duncan, and Keller ...TU&D:<br /><br />No, I think Mohler, Duncan, and Keller would readily agree that Rome preaches a false gospel. I have no rebuttal for that.<br /><br />Apparently you do not think so?<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.com