tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post7514592695833482786..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Responding to Wes WidnerTurretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-62545640647020853732009-11-14T19:41:59.259+00:002009-11-14T19:41:59.259+00:00Just wanted to point out that you misspelled my na...Just wanted to point out that you misspelled my name above. It's "Wes" not "Wed" :-)Wes Widnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14271594274004665723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-49492436641695885582009-11-10T18:03:12.680+00:002009-11-10T18:03:12.680+00:00I think I understand...I think I understand...Strong Towerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13834108238546908018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-37615643753822265582009-11-10T13:58:02.873+00:002009-11-10T13:58:02.873+00:00ST:
I'd agree with most of what you are sayin...ST:<br /><br />I'd agree with most of what you are saying, although I think that the passage itself doesn't post a "counterfactual" in the conventional sense (i.e. if A then B, where A does not happen). It should be noted that some Molinists treat counterfactuals as though they are every case where it is "if A then B" where A's eventuality is simply unknown or Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-77163406547032556932009-11-09T18:42:40.582+00:002009-11-09T18:42:40.582+00:00Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in va...<i>Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying, “Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us.” ...I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your Strong Towerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13834108238546908018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-68825063779870023602009-11-08T15:38:21.251+00:002009-11-08T15:38:21.251+00:00Acolyte4236:
Thanks for your latest comment, whic...Acolyte4236:<br /><br />Thanks for your latest comment, which confirms to me that you had no interest in understanding what was being said.<br /><br />You are hereby banned from this blog for one week.<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-25073513691407071562009-11-08T01:17:44.878+00:002009-11-08T01:17:44.878+00:00Acolyte wrote: "Reasons aren’t causes since o...Acolyte wrote: "Reasons aren’t causes since one can have a reason for doing something and it not occur. Decisions execute plans of actions which contain reasons."<br /><br />Yes, there are uses of "reason" that do not overlap with "cause." That's a trivial point, especially since I've already conceded incomplete overlap.<br /><br />"A reason for doing Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-71911565023372351282009-11-07T18:33:17.324+00:002009-11-07T18:33:17.324+00:00Acolyte4236 wrote: "Reasons aren't causes...Acolyte4236 wrote: "Reasons aren't causes which is why Molinists can and do accept the PSR consistently, and the vast majority of compatibilists admit as much."<br /><br />The argument <i>ad populum</i> is noted, but not particularly compelling. Saying "reasons aren't causes" is a bit glib. The two terms have different semantic ranges, of course, but in the context Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-71011281660654781132009-11-07T17:42:02.016+00:002009-11-07T17:42:02.016+00:00I find it an interesting ploy by Acolyte4236.
But...I find it an interesting ploy by Acolyte4236.<br /><br />But setting that aside I would proffer an "implicit" sense of causal determinism.<br /><br />First I would note that I was trained as a commissioner who had to sit as judge during disputes between my Tribe, as the employer and their employee who had filed a grievance with my office. Sitting as a Judge is a very active causal eventAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-79458068740044107642009-11-07T17:16:10.171+00:002009-11-07T17:16:10.171+00:00Acolyte4236:
You wrote: "If the meaning of c...Acolyte4236:<br /><br />You wrote: "If the meaning of causal determinism were the same as the principle of sufficient reason, then it would follow that Molinists adhere to causal determinism, which is false. Therefore, the concepts are not the same."<br /><br />Molinism cannot consistently accept the principle of sufficient reason. That's one flaw in that philosophical paradigm.<brTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-1321308912274597522009-11-07T16:15:23.150+00:002009-11-07T16:15:23.150+00:00Since you don't like my definition, how about ...Since you don't like my definition, how about you propose a definition of your own? I don't want to play a guessing game where I try to guess which definition will make you happy.<br /><br />I'm not persuaded that because the definition I gave is also the principle of sufficient reason that it is not the definition of causal determinism.<br /><br />A better explanation from you, if Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-59671515098925380942009-11-07T15:52:55.953+00:002009-11-07T15:52:55.953+00:00Actually, thats not a definition of causal determi...Actually, thats not a definition of causal determinism for a few reasons. That's the Principle of Sufficient Reason or something very much like it, not causal determinism.<br /><br />Furthermore, causal indeterminists also think that everything that comes into existence has a cause too, so that doesn't discriminate causal determinism from causal indeterminism.<br /><br />So, can you give Acolyte4236https://www.blogger.com/profile/06247421363309732839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-17904468496938389842009-11-07T11:17:01.016+00:002009-11-07T11:17:01.016+00:00Acolyte4236:
Everything that comes to being has a...Acolyte4236:<br /><br />Everything that comes to being has a cause or reason why it came to being in that way. Anything that changes has a cause or reason why it changes.<br /><br />Does that help explain it for you?<br /><br />-TurretinFanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-17921964840117853982009-11-07T11:15:16.473+00:002009-11-07T11:15:16.473+00:00Thanks very much for your kind words, Jon! I'...Thanks very much for your kind words, Jon! I'm glad that you're edified by what I write, and I am thankful that you recognize that I am seeking to be Biblical.Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-41405515862926705522009-11-06T23:57:26.090+00:002009-11-06T23:57:26.090+00:00Though I have yet to read Steve's post, a thou...Though I have yet to read Steve's post, a thought occurred to me as I was reading your post on Wes Widner... & please, Turretinfan, please do not think I'm inflating your ego or swelling you with flattering words. I suggest that it is possible for your to be swayed by my words because of the propensity of flesh to sin; however, I believe that you have grown in grace, by God's Jon Cardwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06701977948648440761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-8014431066275564592009-11-06T23:19:31.438+00:002009-11-06T23:19:31.438+00:00Can you give a definition of causal determinism?Can you give a definition of causal determinism?Acolyte4236https://www.blogger.com/profile/06247421363309732839noreply@blogger.com