tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post899843536252743210..comments2024-03-17T08:25:33.806+00:00Comments on Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Do Modern Roman Catholic Apologists Care about Pope Leo X?Turretinfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-90480001353619990332007-06-20T14:07:00.000+01:002007-06-20T14:07:00.000+01:00Drew,As for this being an example of "trumped up c...Drew,<BR/><BR/>As for this being an example of "trumped up charges," I exhort you to read the post to see whether I ask for light on the subject, or whether I dogmatically assert that all those who are reading Luther are excommunicants.<BR/><BR/>-TurretinfanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-43940472029551706672007-06-20T14:05:00.000+01:002007-06-20T14:05:00.000+01:00Drew,You wrote: "In matters of discipline, Papal b...Drew,<BR/><BR/>You wrote: "In matters of discipline, Papal bulls are binding as Church Law insofar as they are incorporated into Canon Law."<BR/><BR/>Your statement may, indeed, be the actual policy of the Roman Catholic Church. Leo X's Bull does not give any indication of it. Indeed, it seems to be self-executing.<BR/><BR/>May I ask for some citation to authority?<BR/><BR/>After all, surely a Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-15614288831878906202007-06-20T14:00:00.000+01:002007-06-20T14:00:00.000+01:00Dear Drew,Thanks for the reminder that the discipl...Dear Drew,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the reminder that the discipline of the Roman Catholic Church does not purport to be infallible.<BR/><BR/>I would certainly agree with your gloss on the phrase "anything to the contrary notwithstanding."<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure your comment directly answers the question, though.<BR/><BR/>Is Leo's sanction reduced to automatic excommunication, or is it simply totally Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-74354119211483057432007-06-20T05:13:00.000+01:002007-06-20T05:13:00.000+01:00"Is the sense then that all previous papal decrees..."Is the sense then that all previous papal decrees that had such penalty are consequently dispensed entirely with, or merely reduced to a lesser penalty?"<BR/><BR/>Whenever canon law includes the phrase "anything to the contrary not withstanding," it overturns any disciplinary precedent or previous ruling. Note that this addresses matters of discipline, not matters of faith; the Church claims toAndrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391317387246355345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-16765726195028412182007-06-20T05:08:00.000+01:002007-06-20T05:08:00.000+01:00In matters of discipline, Papal bulls are binding ...In matters of discipline, Papal bulls are binding as Church Law insofar as they are incorporated into Canon Law. They are not binding insofar as they are abrogated by Church Law--except, of course, for matters of doctrine, which Catholics believe never change.<BR/><BR/>It was Canon Law, therefore, that forbid the reading of certain books, by the establishment of the "Index of Forbidden Books." Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391317387246355345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-25786107792675742682007-06-20T00:14:00.000+01:002007-06-20T00:14:00.000+01:00Dear Reginald,Thanks again for your valuable tips!...Dear Reginald,<BR/><BR/>Thanks again for your valuable tips! That will really provide assistance to me in tracking this matter down.<BR/><BR/>May God's blessing rest on you,<BR/><BR/>-TurretinfanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-46039564610325574572007-06-20T00:11:00.000+01:002007-06-20T00:11:00.000+01:00Hello Turretinfan -The reference for the abolition...Hello Turretinfan -<BR/><BR/>The reference for the abolition of the Index is: <I>Acta Apostolicae Sedis</I>, 1966, p. 445. I don't have a specific primary reference on the changes dealing with major excommunication, but there is an article by Jimmy Akin dealing with it <A HREF="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0004chap.asp" REL="nofollow">here</A>. I apologize if that is insufficient for Fred Noltiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203885485191808284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-86512670171211835632007-06-19T13:52:00.000+01:002007-06-19T13:52:00.000+01:00Dear Reginald,Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I c...Dear Reginald,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can track that down. I remember the '60s ushering a wide variety of canon law changes, but was unaware of that one.<BR/><BR/>a) Is the sense then that all previous papal decrees that had such penalty are consequently dispensed entirely with, or merely reduced to a lesser penalty?<BR/><BR/>b) I thought (though I could be wrong) that the Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-1776899076334295772007-06-19T11:49:00.000+01:002007-06-19T11:49:00.000+01:00Hello Turretinfan,Automatic major excommunication ...Hello Turretinfan,<BR/><BR/>Automatic major excommunication no longer exists as a penalty in canon law.<BR/><BR/>The index of prohibited books was abolished in 1966. The obligation to guard one's faith and conduct remains, however.Fred Noltiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203885485191808284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-67011335901379044822007-06-19T00:01:00.000+01:002007-06-19T00:01:00.000+01:00Dear TJ,Yes, both JP2 and Ben16 appear to be among...Dear TJ,<BR/><BR/>Yes, both JP2 and Ben16 appear to be among the RCC apologists that have read (and praised) Luther's writings, especially Ben 16.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure the sedavacantist Roman Catohlics would tend to think that this means that by Leo's (and Peter's and Paul's) decree JP2 and Ben16 were subject to automatic major excommunication.<BR/><BR/>Others must have other ideas. I guess we'll Turretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-61712542791101883692007-06-18T23:55:00.000+01:002007-06-18T23:55:00.000+01:00Apparently JP II said the following in a 2001 gene...Apparently JP II said the following in a 2001 general address:<BR/><BR/>4. The visit to Elizabeth is sealed by the canticle of the Magnificat, a hymn that has come down through all Christian centuries as a perennial melody: a hymn that unites their hearts of Christ's disciples beyond the historical divisions, which we are committed to overcoming in view of full communion. In this ecumenical TheoJunkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445444858090314944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-90470532904778391032007-06-18T21:50:00.000+01:002007-06-18T21:50:00.000+01:00Dear Godith,Somehow, I think you would have gotten...Dear Godith,<BR/><BR/>Somehow, I think you would have gotten along well with Luther.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps sometime I'll have to post a "fun with false cognates" entry.<BR/><BR/>-TurretinfanTurretinfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802277110253897379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21597890.post-5018082476662229952007-06-18T21:47:00.000+01:002007-06-18T21:47:00.000+01:00I followed the links. That's a lot of bull. -Godit...I followed the links. That's a lot of bull. <BR/>-GodithAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com