May the God of the Sabbath, who has given us rest, bless us,
-TurretinFan
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Amen brother TF!
ReplyDeleteI do believe apostasy has arrived, unwittingly of course, nevertheless, those words are straining and restraining the soul given to pleasures, however slight in their eyes they be, pleasures nevertheless. One such as I tremble when taking to heart those admonitions seeing how wretched and admittedly guilty I am!
Oh, but for the Grace of God, my soul is doomed to everlasting everpresent wrath from my Maker!
I am now praying in light of these Words of Scripture appealing to my Maker to bring His fire back into me renewed and refreshed continually:::>
Rev 2:4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
My prayer: "Lord, Your Will, not mine, Yours and Yours hotly, only, not mine!"
The spirit of this age looms large and larger appealing more and more to the most sincere!
Truly, Christ is our Sabbath rest. I thank God for that gift every day! May we always devote every moment of our lives to Him and for His glory!
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't disagree with what you say, the fulfilment of the Sabbath is heaven - thus, the fourth commandment continues in force.
ReplyDelete-TurretinFan
Oh, dear! I hope we mean the same thing I don't want to dispute with you on everything. My thoughts:
ReplyDeleteIt can't just mean heaven for we (Jews and Gentiles forever not just 1000yrs) will spend eternity on a new earth after Christ comes back not heaven. I could be wrong...maybe will live in both places off and on, but I've never heard that before. Christ is the fulfillment of all things not heaven. So Christ has to be the fulfillment of the Sabbath. Heaven isn't our inheritance Christ is. Heaven would be nothing without Christ (I obviously include the Godhead here). If it just means heaven, then the Sabbath will one day mean nothing when we live on the new earth. The Sabbath is eternal Christ is eternal. I rest in Christ now from all my filthy works and His works which He fulfilled here on this earth is imputed onto me...my sins were imputed onto Him for payment. He is our Sabbath not heaven. Heaven is just a place. In Him we rest...in fact we must rest. None of our works are worth anything only those which come from Christ which He works within us through our sanctification process. "He who started the work will finish it" He works we rest...in Him. Besides, I think we can agree because I hate football and the Olympics and tv! It's much better to study God's Word every chance we can get. One day we won't have His Word so conveniently...persecution will come to us some day! Hope that's what you mean. I'll be quiet though if it isn't what you mean.
luvvom,
ReplyDeleteBy heaven, I mean our future glorified state. It is the rest into which we will enter, but which we have not yet attained to, as the Scriptures teach.
Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
-TurretinFan
Misunderstood, sorry! I definitely agree with you that our Sabbath rest is fulfilled when we are glorified. But wouldn't you agree that it has a beginning? Something can't be completed if it isn't begun. Our rest in Him begins at new birth and is carried out all the way to glorification and into "forever". Or do you believe the Sabbath only begins when we are glorified? I've not heard that before. Most reformers believe that Heb 4:9-10 is speaking of the continuation of physically observing the Sabbath (I happen to disagree with them...I'm more in line with Calvin regarding that). I've never heard it stated that it meant that we don't enter the Sabbath here on earth. If I'm understanding you right, you're thinking is interesting but I don't think I can concur. Interesting thoughts though. Time for me to hit the sack!
ReplyDeleteluv,
ReplyDeleteHere at these two verses might be a place for you to ponder this 'unity' from as you say:
luv:[[Heaven isn't our inheritance Christ is. Heaven would be nothing without Christ (I obviously include the Godhead here).]]
There is a Greek word that Paul uses twice only in Scripture.
Here: Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--
and here: Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
The phrase is "made alive together with" and "made us alive together with".
The Greek word is:
συζωοποιέω
suzōopoieō
sood-zo-op-oy-eh'-o
From G4862 and G2227; to reanimate conjointly with (figuratively): - quicken together with.
Now consider that in light of this word in the Greek:
ζωοποιέω
zōopoieō
dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.
Here is where this word "zoopoieo" is used in it's strongest application. It is used about 11 times in the New Testament compared to the use of the other word only twice. It is used twice in this verse, John 5:21 and both God, Our Heavenly Father and Jesus apply it to us:
Joh 5:19 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
Joh 5:20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
Once they "give us life" we then can be "made alive" with Christ. We then, by this "act of God" can come to understand the unique event in our "walk" and "relationship" with Christ. It is when God Our Heavenly Father "conjoins" us to His Son Jesus so that "we" are now "one" Spirit with the Lord and can struggle to enter that rest spoken about in this article already!
Whatever it means to you that we will "walk" on a new earth it means to me that now I and Christ are "one" by this unique Work of God, Our Heavenly Father by His "conjoining" us to Jesus Christ! Aaaaaaah!! I now can struggle to cease from my self works as Christ did from His by dying on the Cross for my sins too!
Luv, you wrote: [[If it just means heaven, then the Sabbath will one day mean nothing when we live on the new earth.]]
Wherever Christ is going to live, I will live there too seeing I am now the Wife of the Lamb!
What I can do now the rest of my natural life/bios is this:
Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
Rom 7:5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
Luvvom:
ReplyDeleteCalvin's views on the subject are not as cut and dried as a lot of people like to suggest. You might consider checking out Prof. Gaffin's book on the subject:
(link to book)
The Sabbath points us forward to heaven. It is the taste of our heavenly rest, now. And no, given the passage already mentioned, since I believe that Jesus (via the Spirit) gives us regeneration, I don't believe regeneration is part of the fulfilment of the Sabbath.
-TurretinFan
I looked at Sproul's explanation of this verse and he agrees with you. I'm surprised I never looked up his explanation. Other reformers believe it is a command to continue the physical observance of the Sabbath. I'm glad we had this discussion. I will use it to ponder further on this subject! It will be exciting to learn what you and Sproul(and probably many others) mean concerning this verse.
ReplyDeleteAbout Calvin. I don't think I know the man of whom you speak, Gaffin. I'll read your link. I use Calvin's work to get my understanding of what he believed. One such work is his institutes. Here is a link to his view on the Sabbath (you have to scroll down to number 28). When I read it some time ago I was surprise to see how my beliefs lined up with his...surprised and grateful.
natamllc,
ReplyDeleteI just woke up not too long ago so that might be why I don't see how what you commented to me refers to what I said. I said if Christ is our inheritance and heaven wouldn't mean anything if He were not. Then you wanted me to consider verses that spoke of being made alive in Him. I agree that we are but I don't see the connection between our thoughts...perhaps I need to wake up more and re-read your comment. :o)
Luv,
ReplyDeleteI don't know about that or what that means, "I just woke up"?
Maybe you can bring some meaning to what you meant and mean?
Do you mean, it's now 9 a.m. and I over slept, a bit groggie and not in my full clear mind?
Do you mean, I am a newly awakened Christian girl and just started learning the Doctrines of the Faith once delivered to the Saints?
Do you mean this as your senses are being trained to discern between good and evil?:
Eph 5:13 But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible,
Eph 5:14 for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
Eph 5:15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise,
Eph 5:16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil.
As for rest in any context, I believe the Apostle Paul wrote it succinctly when we read these words of Scripture from Romans 8:
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Rom 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
Rom 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
When you put those words in context with the great "Faith" chapter of Hebrews and especially verses like these you will wrestle mightily to enter into that "Promised Sabbath rest" ceasing from your self works:
Heb 11:14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland.
Heb 11:15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return.
and these:
Heb 11:35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life.
Heb 11:36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated--
Heb 11:38 of whom the world was not worthy--wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
Heb 11:40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
How does one reconcile living in this world full of demons and humans devoid of the Spirit of Grace with living in the Sabbath rest?
Things are not going to "get better" until things get much much worse:
2Ti 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.
2Ti 3:2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,
2Ti 3:4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2Ti 3:5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
2Ti 3:6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions,
2Ti 3:7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
I like this promise. Don't you?
Psa 50:15 and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me."
Ummm....I mean that I am a 40yr old woman who works 12h night shifts as an RN with mentally deranged patients (well, most of them are) who exhaust me, and even though I sleep during the day pretty well I wake up very tired and probably don't think too well until I'm good and awake. I was raised in a Christian home but have only been a Christian for 10yrs. :o)
ReplyDeleteAmen Turretinfan. This is something I never learned as a Roman Catholic, and later as a non-Reformed evangelical. I am glad that this important teaching is well preserved in our confessions, the WCF and the 1689 LBCF.
ReplyDeleteI have conservative Roman Catholic friends involved in the activities of the Opus Dei who are well-versed in the CCC, but are seemingly unaware of the conservative stance taken by the Baltimore Catechism. For them, going to the Mass on Sunday is enough. After Mass, everything done in any ordinary day can also be done on Sunday.
Thanks for the post.