The superstitions associated with the Rosary are just tremendous, but a sincere belief in the power of the Rosary throughout Catholicism cannot be denied. I recall reading that the SSPX had prayed 1.7 Million rosaries (source - with critical Romanist commentary) from the time that they had come under Rome's excommunication until the time the excommunication was lifted.
But I came across an even more interesting site "Rosaries for Life" (H.T. to Romanist Mark Shea for pointing this out) in which the goal is to fight abortion through praying Rosaries (link). The remarkable depth of the superstitious reverence for the rosary can really be seen most clearly from a sub-page of the site entitled "Rosary Power" (link).
I think we should be praying to God, asking that the massacre of the unborn be abated, but the Rosary is not the way to pray. It is saddening to see not only the depth of the superstition, but as well the depth of the sincerity of those who are drawn into these practices.
-TurretinFan
Sunday, February 15, 2009
17 comments:
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Seeing Jesus made it plain elucidating His Will, here:
ReplyDeleteMat 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
I have to genuflect to Him still and say amen again to your words:
"....I think we should be praying to God, asking that the massacre of the unborn be abated, but the Rosary is not the way to pray...."
So you don't like the rosary for all the usual protestant reasons. But what gives you the right to call it superstitious? How is it superstitious, and protestant prayers are not?
ReplyDelete"Orthodox":
ReplyDelete"Protestant" prayers are to someone who can actually hear them, God.
"Protestant" prayers do not seek to be effective through vain repetition.
Even though the Lord's prayer is prayed by "Protestants" you won't generally see them saying that they prayed 500,000 Our Fathers in order to try to get God to do something.
-TurretinFan
As I mused with Orthodox's words, I remembered a prize I won in Catholic Cathecism when I was younger. The prize? Well, I don't remember but the deal was to win you had to see how many Our Father's you could pray in one minute without faultering. I won!
ReplyDeleteNow that I am older and a reformed Catholic, now a born again, Spirit filled Christian and disciple of the Lord, it disgusts me to remember what was accomplished in those days.
Now I have the priviledge of being a part of the education of my children and those of the Holy Christian Church where I fellowship and we do not teach our young children the Lord's Prayer as competition. We instill in them reverence for Our God. We have established our own school system to educate our own centered in the Scriptures.
Further, as I read the response to Orthodox's words, these verses of Scripture came to mind and they should, at a minimum, bring about some regard for how we cathecize our own:
Psa 94:1 O LORD, God of vengeance, O God of vengeance, shine forth!
Psa 94:2 Rise up, O judge of the earth; repay to the proud what they deserve!
Psa 94:3 O LORD, how long shall the wicked, how long shall the wicked exult?
Psa 94:4 They pour out their arrogant words; all the evildoers boast.
Psa 94:5 They crush your people, O LORD, and afflict your heritage.
Psa 94:6 They kill the widow and the sojourner, and murder the fatherless;
Psa 94:7 and they say, "The LORD does not see; the God of Jacob does not perceive."
Psa 94:8 Understand, O dullest of the people! Fools, when will you be wise?
Psa 94:9 He who planted the ear, does he not hear? He who formed the eye, does he not see?
Psa 94:10 He who disciplines the nations, does he not rebuke? He who teaches man knowledge--
Psa 94:11 the LORD--knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath.
I agree that there are a great deal of superstition in Catholic popular piety. Having said that, because you haven't put the Rosary, in the context of intercessory prayer, which has to then be put into the context of the teaching on the Communion of Saints, you're critique doesn't hit the issue. Naturally, I gave you opportunity to do this before Christmas when I posted on the Communion of Saints, but time has not permitted you to respond.
ReplyDeleteKelly,
ReplyDeleteIt's not a question of "putting it in the context of 'X'." Trying to put praying to a dead person in the context of asking other living people to pray for you is what Romanist apologists do, of course. Misapplying the phrase "communion of saints" to include things like prayers to dead is another example of a Romanist ploy. Those invalid associations are not the "context" they are the apology (i.e. the attempted defense) of the superstitious prayers to those who cannot hear them, not a "context" that has to itself (recursively to the next defense etc. ad nauseum) be addressed in every comment on the most obvious manifestation of a particular error.
To put it differently, not every mention of a particular errant practice must address all of the erroneous foundations and/or defenses of that particular errant practice - if that were the requirement, every blog post would be a treatise.
-TurretinFan
NatAmLLC,
ReplyDeleteIt is truly sad to see people misusing the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples, as a template for how we should pray.
-TurretinFan
Yes,
ReplyDeleteIt became a bargaining chip in my arsenal of sinful actions to get my soul out of jeopardy with God! Why? Because the Priest affirmed it was the "right" way.
I am so glad God has been and still is merciful to a wretched sinner as I continue to be.
Now my prayers have reasons to be prayed as we earlier touched on regarding abortion!
One estimate of the reach abortion has on humanity is grave seeing there are always more than one mother's womb being affected by the effects of the sinful slaughter of someone's child, grand child and great grand child and and and.
The only consolation for me now is My Reformed beliefs granted to me by the Hand of an Angry God, so Merciful and Mighty. I know that sounds oxymoronic and it is. Still, They comfort me and I am not left alone. The knowledge of predestination comforts me. Thoughts on the Elect and the Reprobate as Luther and Calvin, in their great contribution to our solice and peace, comfort me. Your blog comforts me.
I am mindful of something Calvin wrote that I read recently which comforts me and keeps me in a humble, tenderhearted and broken state of being, as I too, engage the battle set before us by the Hand of God. Maybe it will give some sense to those in here debating the Rosary "power":
Calvin, 1536 Institutes, in response to the French King, his dedicatory epistle, writes: "By reading our confession you can judge according to your prudence not only how malicious a calumny but also what utter effrontery this is."
As you know, Calvin picked up on the false Sacraments and false prayers of the RCC in his Institutes, too.
"the Lord's prayer is prayed by "Protestants" you won't generally see them saying that they prayed 500,000 Our Fathers in order to try to get God to do something."
ReplyDeleteHow come I keep hearing about protestant prayer chains, and how they kept the chain going for X days or weeks?
"Orthodox":
ReplyDeleteMost of the Protestant "prayer chains" I know of are a chain of people - prayer requests are distributed via the prayer chain.
I suppose there are some sorts of Protestant "prayer marathons" but it is not repetitive prayers, but many people praying to God for the same thing.
-TurretinFan
TurretinFan, just so I understand you, are you saying that in the Body of Christ, there are "dead" members?
ReplyDeleteOrthodox asked: "How is many people praying for the same thing as a marathon not repetitive?"
ReplyDeleteBecause they are not mindlessly repeating a form prayer that has nothing particularly (or very little in particular) to do with the thing that they wish to receive from God.
I'm surprised that it's not immediately obvious to you what the difference is between praying "Rosaries" and having lots of people individually pray for the same request to be answered.
-TurretinFan
Kelly,
ReplyDeleteDeath is not able to separate people from their union with Christ, although it does separate them from communion with each other.
So, yes, even "dead" people are still part of the chuch invisible and universal - the body of Christ considered as a whole, as opposed to the body of Christ here on earth.
-TurretinFan
But as you ackonwledge there is only one body of Christ, that is why I asked for clarification regarding your comment regarding asking "dead" people for prayers. I suppose you would have liked to have rephrased it. In any event I think there is Scriptural warrant for supposing that those departed, part of whom the Church calls the "Church Triumphant" are very much in communion with us. Would you like me to continue this conversation, or would you like to put it to an end by showing that they are not in communion with us?
ReplyDeleteKelly,
ReplyDeleteNope, they're separated from us by death. And those aren't the two options. If you wish to try to show that Bible teaches that we commune with the dead, feel free to do so on your own blog. It's not my responsibility to prove that the Bible explicitly rejects every heresy - that's not how it works.
-TurretinFan
Would be interested to hear how you read Hebrews 11...
ReplyDeleteKelly,
ReplyDeleteI read it as presenting a great cloud of witnesses (i.e. people giving testimony) to the faith.
They have testified, but will we hear their testimony? Will we join them in faith in the unseen God?
-TurretinFan