Steve Ray has a list of 35 loaded Questions for "Bible Christians" (quotation marks his)(link to the whole list). This is number 33/35. I'm trying to provide the answers in a common format, for easy reference.
33) Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?
Simple Answer(s):
The world sees the invisible unity through the visible manifestations of invisible love that believers have for one another.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Important Qualification(s):
1) The ungodly world doesn't recognize the Spirit of Truth,
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
or the sons of God:
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Believers are directly taught by God to love one another.
1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
3) I've previously demonstrated that Rome's apologists appeal wrongly to John 17 here: (link).
- TurretinFan
Thursday, February 11, 2010
5 comments:
Comment Guidelines:
1. Thanks for posting a comment. Without you, this blog would not be interactive.
2. Please be polite. That doesn't mean you have to use kid gloves, but please try not to flame others, even if they are heretics, infidels, or worse.
3. If you insult me, I'm more likely to delete your comment than if you butter me up. After all, I'm human. I prefer praise to insults. If you prefer insults, there's something wrong with you.
4. Please be concise. The comment box is not your blog. Your blog is your blog. If you have a really long comment, post it on your blog and post a short summary of it here.
5. Please don't just spam. It's one thing to be concise, it's another thing to simply use the comment box to advertise.
6. Please note, by commenting here, you are relinquishing your (C) in your comments to me.
7. Remember that you will give an account on judgment day for your words, including those typed in comment boxes. Try to write so you will not be ashamed if it is read back before the entire world.
8. Stay on topic. If your comment has nothing to do with the post, email it to me (my email can be obtained through my blogger profile), or simply don't post it.
9. Don't post as "Anonymous." If you are going to post anonymously, at least use some kind of recognizable "handle," so we can tell you apart from all the other anonymous folks. (This is moot at the moment, since recent abuse has forced me to turn off "anonymous" commenting.)
10. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you; and abstain from doing to others what you would not wish upon yourself.
TF, after my personal exclamation to this you wrote, I would add something:::>
ReplyDeleteTF:
Simple Answer(s):
The world sees the invisible unity through the visible manifestations of invisible love that believers have for one another.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
I would add to where you left off fruther down, at 1 John 3:1 by adding this acknowledging that the Church treats its own with God's Love all the while treating the world with Godly hatred and they with worldly hatred for us:::>
1Jn 3:13 Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
1Jn 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn 3:16 By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
1Jn 3:17 But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?
1Jn 3:18 Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
The trouble the world has with Truth is that there, I suppose? It is the restraint the Holy Spirit places on the True Church that the world hates, here:
"....and sees his brother in need,...".
The world would want us to treat them the same as we treat "the Brethren". When we obey the Truth, they hate us!
Everybody loves a generous man!
God makes His distinction clear, here:::>
Deu 15:1 "At the end of every seven years you shall grant a release.
Deu 15:2 And this is the manner of the release: every creditor shall release what he has lent to his neighbor. He shall not exact it of his neighbor, his brother, because the LORD's release has been proclaimed.
Deu 15:3 Of a foreigner you may exact it, but whatever of yours is with your brother your hand shall release.
Deu 15:4 But there will be no poor among you; for the LORD will bless you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance to possess--
Deu 15:5 if only you will strictly obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all this commandment that I command you today.
The world just wants it their way not Our God's Way!
We indeed are restrained to see it God's Way instead! We are hated and will be hated in this world.
Jesus comforts us though, this way:::>
Joh 16:31 Jesus answered them, "Do you now believe?
Joh 16:32 Behold, the hour is coming, indeed it has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home, and will leave me alone. Yet I am not alone, for the Father is with me.
Joh 16:33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."
I predict the deeper the Church goes with these Truths in obedience to the Faith, the more contentions will rise against Her in this ungodly world devils full by those full of their doctrines?
Unity of love is only part of the unity Steve is referring to. There is also the unity of truth that the reformed churches do not have, which is in breach of the unity reuired by the bible. The reformed churched are not biblical.
ReplyDeleteJM
"Unity of love is only part of the unity Steve is referring to. There is also the unity of truth that the reformed churches do not have, which is in breach of the unity reuired by the bible. The reformed churched are not biblical."
ReplyDeleteSteve is referring to unity of institution, which has nothing to do with John 17. Unity of truth would also be another "invisible" unity.
-TurretinFan
TF:
ReplyDelete"....Steve is referring to unity of institution, which has nothing to do with John 17. Unity of truth would also be another "invisible" unity....".
Hmmmmmm?
Yeah, but TF, isn't the pope the visible christ, especially when he has his hat and robe and jewelry on doing mass or whatever else he does for his flock unofficially?
Unity of love is only part of the unity Steve is referring to. There is also the unity of truth that the reformed churches do not have, which is in breach of the unity reuired by the bible. The reformed churched are not biblical.
ReplyDeleteLOL!
If more of Rome's defenders were willing to base their arguments on what is biblical methinks we could make significant strides forward.
I hope john martin remains consistent in using biblical arguments for his objections.
In Christ,
CD