Some new evidence regarding Ergun Caner's background has come to light (link to evidence). The evidence appears to confirm the central point of my previous discussion (here) namely that Ergun Caner is a real ex-Muslim, the son of a devout Muslim father. While I do invite folks to compare the new evidence above with Caner's own words (link to resources for this), the evidence points specifically to Ergun Caner's father being a sufficiently devout Muslim to fight in court to have his sons raised in the "Islamic faith."
While issues still remain regarding Ergun Caner's apparently embellished autobiography (as variously presented), I trust that this latest evidence will help serious Muslim opponents of Caner to drop their unwarranted allegations that Ergun Caner is a "fake ex-muslim."
-TurretinFan
Tuesday, March 30, 2010
9 comments:
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I don't know about that. Apparently he was raised mainly by his mother. And she, apparently, didn't raise raise him in the Muslim faith if she could avoid it. If that's the parent he spent most of his time with, then we'd expect him, as a dependent child, to assimilate to her religious preference (or lack thereof).
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, boys naturally look to their father as the major role model. So it's possible that he would identify more strongly with his father.
The evidence presented demonstrates how Ergun Caner was raised by his non-Muslim mother for 76% of his childhood. They converted to Christianity, but not from Islam. They converted from not having a particular belief to Christianity. I.e. not ex Muslims. I advise you to read all the evidence presented and get a better understanding of the documents shown. Ergun Caner is not an ex Muslim. He embraced the Christian faith from not having a particular belief.
ReplyDeleteSteve:
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean to suggest that he was a devout youngster.
Anonymous:
Please feel free to try to demonstrate that being Muslim is specifically about believing and not about submitting.
-TurretinFan
With the name of God, Peace be unto you all.
ReplyDeleteTurretinfan doesn't the fact that his whole background lies in obscurity give some warrant to the claim that some of us have that he was a fake Ex-Muslim?
I mean what's really going on. Yeah I'm not really into nit picking on issues. I was the one who pointed out to 'Dr' James that in the Hanafi legal code one can pray in the bathroom. Matter of fact in all the legal schools if it comes down to it.
Also I'll agree with the statements that muazeen and muadheen are trivial.
Take a look at what White posted on his site. I mean a three year old learning in the madrassa. The choice of his clothing, his birth, where he spent his time. The 40 days fast? The actual date of his 'conversion'.
It might be helpful to all to actually construct a time line beginning with his parents. Along with video recorded evidence of his own proclamations. Than we will see.
Maybe we could come to some middle ground that he was a 'nominal' Muslim.
I mean how many times have I myself encountered people who told me I'm a convert to Islam from Christianity yet upon investigation you can see they had little foundation in Christian theology at all.
TGV19:
ReplyDeleteThere may simply not be evidence to judge between whether Ergun was a devout Muslim child or a nominal Muslim child. His level of devotion is not really the issue I'm addressing - I'm quite content with the fact that he may not have been a particularly devout or well-educated Muslim.
Nevertheless, surely you are familiar enough with Islamic views to recognize that broad swaths of Islam generally view children of Muslim fathers as Muslims.
- TurretinFan
With the name of God, Peace be unto you.
ReplyDelete@ Turretinfan now that I think about of course the Prophet (saw) said, "Every child is born into a state of fitrah (Or Islam) and it is the parents that make one a Jew, a Christian or an Idolater." So from the theological position of Islam.
Ergun Caner's default position was that of a Muslim until his conversion.
That said I may have to think about rewording some of my post.
TGV19
Grandverbalizer19:
ReplyDeleteInteresting Hadith quote - can you give us the reference?
I have heard this a lot from Muslims, that all people are originally innocent (fitrah - born with an upright nature) - based on Surah 30:30 - and that all children are really Muslims, but the parents and culture and environment lead them astray.
If children have an upright nature, (fitrah - meaning, "nature", temperament, constitution, disposition, natural make up), why do children need to be taught "don't do that", etc. when they naturally act selfish from the beginning?
If you don't teach them right from wrong, they will degenerate into a spoiled brat and be behavioral problems.
If they are naturally good, it seems their nature should automatically develop into goodness.
This is the great problem that Islam cannot answer - the internal and hidden sins of the heart and mind, of pride, lust, anger, jealousy, selfishness, greed, hatred, deception, hypocrisy, etc.
Matthew 5:21-30
Mark 7:20-23
In all fairness, since there is inadequate verification on this blog, then, Ergun Caner's rebuttal and refutation should be placed on this blog also, and here is the link to it.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3862
LOL E.J.
ReplyDelete