On August 12, 2010, I debated on the topic of the canon of Scripture with Mr. William Albrecht (Roman Catholic). The issue was whether the Apocrypha (what the Roman Catholics call the Deuterocanonicals) are inspired Scripture. I demonstrated that they could not be, since they make various mistakes, particularly focusing on Baruch and Tobit. Additionally, I pointed out that they were not accepted as inspired Scripture by Jesus, the Apostles or the other Jews of their day. The conclusion is, of course, that although some of the church fathers may have regarded some of them as Scripture (particularly the wisdom literature of Sirach and Wisdom), nevertheless there is not a good reason to accept them as inspired.
I've embedded the playlist below (I had already provided the mp3 in a previous post).
- TurretinFan
Saturday, November 06, 2010
6 comments:
Comment Guidelines:
1. Thanks for posting a comment. Without you, this blog would not be interactive.
2. Please be polite. That doesn't mean you have to use kid gloves, but please try not to flame others, even if they are heretics, infidels, or worse.
3. If you insult me, I'm more likely to delete your comment than if you butter me up. After all, I'm human. I prefer praise to insults. If you prefer insults, there's something wrong with you.
4. Please be concise. The comment box is not your blog. Your blog is your blog. If you have a really long comment, post it on your blog and post a short summary of it here.
5. Please don't just spam. It's one thing to be concise, it's another thing to simply use the comment box to advertise.
6. Please note, by commenting here, you are relinquishing your (C) in your comments to me.
7. Remember that you will give an account on judgment day for your words, including those typed in comment boxes. Try to write so you will not be ashamed if it is read back before the entire world.
8. Stay on topic. If your comment has nothing to do with the post, email it to me (my email can be obtained through my blogger profile), or simply don't post it.
9. Don't post as "Anonymous." If you are going to post anonymously, at least use some kind of recognizable "handle," so we can tell you apart from all the other anonymous folks. (This is moot at the moment, since recent abuse has forced me to turn off "anonymous" commenting.)
10. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you; and abstain from doing to others what you would not wish upon yourself.
I would friendly advise you not to try discreditting the OT books that are not in the Hebrew by using arguments which very easily and quite frequently backfire against the ones that you do actually consider canonical... -- just a tip.
ReplyDeleteHow would you advise me to discredit them? Oh, not at all? ok :)
ReplyDeleteYes, TF; all's well so long as you train your exegetical firepower upon the dogmas peculiar to Rome; but when you begin demolishing sacred cows that are venerated by both the Romanists and Eastern Orthodoxy...well...it's best to let that sleeping dog lie, right Lucian?
ReplyDeleteIn Christ,
CD
Aside from the fact that, again, I get to hear your voice, hear the plain depth of understanding and wisdom and knowledge God has caused you to attain to, I am not sure if what I just listened to was a waste of time?
ReplyDeleteAlso I would note from the many fruits of the flesh elucidated by the Apostle Paul in his now noted sacred writings, the book of Galatians, this particular one seemed to me to be most evident with your debating opponent:
ἔρις
eris
er'-is
Of uncertain affinity; a quarrel, that is, (by implication) wrangling: - contention, debate, strife, variance.
And, it seemed to me the opponent was trying a case against Dr. White's Ministry and Faith in favor of his good personal Roman Catholic friend's, whose name and blog escapes me even more, promoting his book in favor of much established history!
What I will affirm is he is able to express himself, well, as I noted from that elucidated list of fruits of the flesh, from the book of Galatians, a fruit is evident, as established by a sacred writing ... .
I believe Sirach and Wisdom are definitely worth reading and meditating on. You can do that without dogmatically insisting they are part of the Bible.
ReplyDeleteMany Roman Catholic apologist contend their OT Canon was followed prior to Trent. Here is a refutation.
ReplyDeleteCatholic scholar Cajetan said " Here we close our commentaries on the historical books of the Old Testament. For the rest ( that is, Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees ) are counted by St Jerome out of the canonical books, and are placed amongst the Apocrypha, along with Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus, as is plain from the Prologus Galeatus. Nor be thou disturbed, like a raw scholar, if thou shouldest find anywhere, either in the sacred councils or the sacred doctors, these books reckoned as canonical. For the words as well of councils as of doctors are to be reduced to the correction of Jerome. Now, according to his judgment, in the epistle to the bishops Chromatius and Heliodorus, these books (and any other like books in the canon of the bible) are not canonical, that is, not in the nature of a rule for confirming matters of faith. Yet, they may be called canonical, that is, in the nature of a rule for the edification of the faithful, as being received and authorised in the canon of the bible for that purpose. By the help of this distinction thou mayest see thy way clearly through that which Augustine says, and what is written in the provincial council of Carthage " ( Commentary on all the Authentic Historical Books of the Old Testament, In ult. Cap., Esther. Taken from A Disputation on Holy Scripture by William Whitaker (Cambridge: University, 1849), p. 48. )