When the Blessed Virgin rescues us from plight, "with a mother's tenderness, she wants to make us understand that our whole life should be a response to the love of our God, Who is so rich in mercy. 'Understand,' she seems to say to us, 'that God, Who is the source of all that is good and Who never desires anything other than your true happiness, has the right to demand of you a life that yields unreservedly and joyfully to His will, striving at the same time that others may do likewise'.(Vatican Information System, 24 September 2011)
Let's leave aside the adoration of Mary issue and consider the doctrine that Ratzinger puts in her mouth. According to the pope, God "never desires anything other than your true happiness." This is so typical of man-centered religions. God just wants to make you happy. But is that what Scripture says? In fact, it does not.
Romans 9:22-23
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Even if Scripture were silent on this topic, though, one really has to wonder. If God really desired nothing other than the "true happiness" of anyone, why would hell exist? Does hell bring any men "true happiness"? What about purgatory? Is unnecessary suffering in purgatory something that brings men "true happiness"?
These questions alone should be enough to reject the errors of Benedict XVI.
-TurretinFan
TF,
ReplyDeleteQuestions alone do not show a position to be in error, and therefore can never be "enough to reject" a position. If you really want to know the Catholic answers to those questions, please ask a Catholic. Otherwise, your questions seem to be merely rhetorical.
In the peace of Christ,
- Bryan
"Questions alone do not show a position to be in error, and therefore can never be "enough to reject" a position."
ReplyDeleteI can agree with you here, in that one must actually think about and reflect on these questions and their answers, before they will be enough to reject the position.
Unfortunately, your comment here does not indicate such thought and reflection. Perhaps that is why you do not yet rejection the position?
"If you really want to know the Catholic answers to those questions, please ask a Catholic."
a) I suppose by "Catholic" you mean members of your communion (that label is misleading, for reasons I won't belabor here and now). Since you are here and are such a member, you are welcome to try to answer the questions. In fact, you are encouraged to answer those questions. It was for that purpose that they were purposed, so that they would be thought about.
b) On the other hand, I should point out that simply being a member of your communion does not make someone a legitimate spokesman for your religion. That is to say, Benedict XVI speaking as pope is a much more authoritative source within your religion than you are. If I want to know what the Roman position on something is, it's really to the bishop of Rome that I should probably go in the first instance.
" Otherwise, your questions seem to be merely rhetorical."
I hope it is obvious that there is a large rhetorical element to the questions. Indeed, rhetorical questions (as statements acknowledged to be true by both parties) can show a position to be in error, and therefore can be enough to reject a position. Nevertheless, the questions are posed for readers like yourself to consider.
Thanks for stopping by!
-TurretinFan
Bryan,
ReplyDeletewhat a piece of work you have become so far!
The Pope:
"...'Understand,' she seems to say to us, 'that God, Who is the source of all that is good and Who never desires anything other than your true happiness, has the right to demand of you a life that yields unreservedly and joyfully to His will, striving at the same time that others may do likewise'."
Well, that doesn't square with my square hole!
Explain these discrepancies to that then?
Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
Mat 10:36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.
I have certainly found those Word to be True within my big house!
Or these:
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter,
Heb 11:25 choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin.
Heb 11:26 He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward.
...
Heb 11:32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets--
Heb 11:33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.
Heb 11:35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life.
Heb 11:36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated--
Heb 11:38 of whom the world was not worthy--wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
Heb 11:40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
I have been to Guatemala where there are clear divisions between the Catholic and the Protestant movements there. Sometimes there are some violent manifestations in differences taken.
I have been to the Philippines and have been verbally and physically attacked by Catholics as I preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. Those were not so joyful experiences experienced!
I have been to a number of African nations where there is a continual struggle between Catholics and Protestants today all based in who is claiming their truth is True Truth!
I am not sure you are thinking so squarely, Bryon or realistically, for that matter?
I will stand with Paul the Apostle and say this:
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,
1Ti 4:3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
...
2Ti 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.
2Ti 3:2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,
2Ti 3:4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2Ti 3:5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
God certainly desires nothing but the true happiness of man. After all why would He choose such a means of salvation for the human race such as the Cross?
ReplyDeleteLet us recall 1 Timothy 2:4 ,"who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." This is where man's true happiness is - salvation and unity with He Who is Truth. God desires our true happiness it is man who often times rejects this and thus separation from Him and eternal torment, which is hell, exists.
God does not and cannot create evil, pain or even suffering. This is contrary to His very nature. He allows these things to occur because He does not remove that very special gift that makes us in His image and separates us from all other material creatures - an immortal soul and free will. In this He allows us to choose separation from Him for eternity, thus granting us our own hearts desire because it would only be just for Him not to force use to remain in eternity with Him if we decide the opposite.
a) Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
ReplyDeleteb) You seem to have misunderstood 1 Timothy 2:4. The "all" there is to be understand is referring to "all kinds" (i.e. not just ordinary people, but also kings). See the context.
c) Who created Hell? Is its purpose to produce pain and suffering of humans?
a) I believe you misunderstand the concept of the evil that the Lord creates. The Lord comforts and afflicts; this is part of being just.
ReplyDeleteb) The "all kinds" is exactly my point. God desires ALL men be saved. Mankind's true happiness is found only in God.
c) Again, God is not the DIRECT creator of Hell. This state of being, place/plane of existence (or whatever) is the result of the rebellion of the angels and subsequently ourselves. Hell is being absent from the presence of God. Ultimately, we reject God and elect to leave His presence for eternity - should we die out of His friendship of course.
God is not the author of Evil. God cannot contrast Himself.
lozeer,
ReplyDeleteyou apparently are not apparently in the know as Job is apparently in the know, are you?
Job 2:6 And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life."
Job 2:7 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.
Job 2:8 And he took a piece of broken pottery with which to scrape himself while he sat in the ashes.
Job 2:9 Then his wife said to him, "Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die."
Job 2:10 But he said to her, "You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips.
You also are apparently unaware of what apparently is or will be?
When is it the last time you saw a dead man exercise their will to chose or oppose God, in light of these apparent contradictions to your point of view?
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
Col 2:20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations--
Col 2:21 "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch"
Col 2:22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)--according to human precepts and teachings?
Col 2:23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
It seems to me from where I sit, Paul deconstructs any idea of a person's free will when it comes to Salvation by grace through faith, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God less anyone should boast!
To me, your boast doesn't mean much in here.
lozeer,
ReplyDeleteagain, there we go again! grrrrr
You respond: "...Hell is being absent from the presence of God....".
That is so far from the Truth. Hell is being in the ever-present Wrath of God because of His eternal anger.
Consider what Isaiah says, here:
Isa 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.
Isa 66:24 "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
Tell me, how is one absent from the Presence of God, then, whether one is in Heaven or in Hell?
To say God is the creator of EVIL is heresy. This is flat out fact. God cannot and does not create EVIL or even HELL for that matter. Again, HELL, otherwise known as eternal damnation, is that state of being forever separated from God.
ReplyDeleteIt is a mystery of faith but remains fact nonetheless.
Also, God does not get angry not like us. For that would be sinful and again, against His very own nature. God's anger is one of righteousness and justice just like our fear ("WORK OUT your salvation in fear and trembling...(Phil 2:12)") is not own of fright but of respect. I fear my father not because he is a bad man but because I respect him for who he is and is authority over me as his son.
God wants to save us more than we want to save ourselves.
Salvation is Grace ALONE. Faith and works both play an equal role in how that grace is received and responded to and free will is at the root.
ReplyDelete