UPDATE: The link seems to be broken. This is the chart that I thought was interesting:
Who Caused The Death And Suffering In Job
| Ref. | Who | Inference |
Text |
| Job 1:11 | God | Implied | “But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” |
| Job 1:12 | Satan | Implied | And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” |
| Job 1:21 | God | Explicit | The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away |
| Job 2:3 | Satan | Explicit | “You incited me against him to destroy him” |
| Job 2:3 | God | Explicit | “You incited me against him to destroy him” |
| Job 2:5 | God | Implied | “But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face.” |
| Job 2:6 | Satan | Implied | And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.” |
| Job 2:7 | Satan | Explicit | So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. |
| Job 2:10 | God | Implied | “Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” |
| Job 42:11 | God | Explicit | And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him. |
| Inference | Satan | God |
| Implied | 2 | 3 |
| Explicit | 2 | 3 |
The link does not take you to the analysis, just get message that it does not exist.
ReplyDeleteMitc
Ditto. Link doesn't work.
ReplyDeleteIt's important to note the difference in design between God and Satan else we give a poor impression of God. Satan's design in causing suffering is to draw us away from Christ, God's design in suffering is to draw us to Christ.
ReplyDeleteThe link remains broken, apparently, but I have posted the portion that seems interesting.
ReplyDeleteMr. Bray: Satan is a rebel against God, and yet does God's will (in the providential sense). That's one useful way of distinguishing them. God, as God, is entitled to have any reason he likes for the suffering of men.
For me, these words are profound:
ReplyDeleteJob 1:15 and the Sabeans fell upon them and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, "The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:17 While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, "The Chaldeans formed three groups and made a raid on the camels and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:18 While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house,
Job 1:19 and behold, a great wind came across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young people, and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
1. the Sabeans
2. the fire of God
3. the Chaldeans
4. a great wind
It makes one pause and consider it is better to bless and curse not!
And as if that was not enough, we read this, too:
ReplyDeleteJob 2:7 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.
"...and struck Job with..."!
Who caused Job's suffering?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Qfbrc1jdo
God be with you,
Dan
No doubt Satan had thought long and hard about Job, as he had a ready response regarding Job's protection. However, this was all God's idea, as He brought Job into the conversation to begin with: "Have you considered my servant Job...?" This fact is rarely mentioned in discussions about Job.
ReplyDeleteI believe this Jamsco post was part of the discussion used to put together questions posed to Vox Day. Have you seen how those question responses are going so far? Interesting to say the very least...
ReplyDeleteI saw that Vox Day took an Open Theist position, which was disappointing.
ReplyDeleteVox Day has also vigorously defended modern-day polygamous marriage in the church from the OT, so his taking an Open Theist position is a bit less than surprising.
ReplyDeleteVox Day has tons of theological problems, FYI.
ReplyDeleteOpen Theist, as mentioned here already.
He is uncommitted to Trinitarianism.
I don't believe he is an inerrantist.
Coram Deo: I don't see the connection. Is there a connection between polygamy and Open Theism? -TurretinFan
ReplyDelete@Rhology, yes I first realized his apparent Open Theism in his Irrational Atheist book, but am only just realizing his larger attempts to "disprove" or show foolish most basic orthodox Christian theology as well.
ReplyDeleteError tends to breed error, TF. Think of the connection as asymmetrical instead of linear. Rho's recent comment serves as a case in point.
ReplyDeleteThus, we see the proof that Satan is really synonymous with... well, God.
ReplyDeleteIf whatsoever Satan does, God wills for him to do; if Satan is a tool in God's hand; if God's ordains, permits even commands Satan's evil, then it is extremely feeble to then turn about and say, "Well, Satan is a rebel!". For whatever comes to pass, therefore, whether it is bad, evil, abominable or good - whatever happens is right because whatever happens is God's will.
From the gulag to Auschwitz; from the old lady raped by a pervert, to a child tortured in a cellar; from Job to Judas - all this is God's will. Therefore it is good, and worthy to be praised. When Satan animates NAZIs, or perverts - he is a tool in God's hands, doing whatsoever he is willed to do. Hallelujah for Hitler!
The efforts to extricate God's goodness from this regress never seems compelling, because from a logical and philosophical point of view, they are absurd to the extreme. Responsibility flows from our ability to act. Since God has omnipotence, all evil ultimately regresses to his account. And this renders God's judgement unjust. For before his judgement seat, God could say to Satan, "You wanted to do all of this evil. It was in your heart. You desired it." And Satan could reply, "Yes, and so did you! You wanted me to do this evil. It was in your heart too. And you desired it."
Update your theodicy if you will: make God the equivalent of Satan, a kind of dualism if you wish. Indeed, the hardline Calvinist more-or-less exchanges "Satan" for "God" in the Biblical text anyway.