The Scriptures tell us how various family relations crimes should be punished (all verse references are to Leviticus 20):
Cursing Mother or Father - Death (9)
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
Adulterer and Adulteress - Death (10)
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Incest with Father's Wife - Death (11)
And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Incest with Daughter in Law - Death (12)
And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
Male Homosexuality - Death (13)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Incest with Step-Daughter, Daughter, or Mother-in-Law - Death by Fire (14)
And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
Male or Female Bestiality - Death (15-16)
And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast. And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Incest with Sister or Half-Sister - God Will Punish (17)
And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
Sex During a Woman's Period - God Will Punish (18)
And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
Incest with Aunt - God Will Punish (19-20)
And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity. And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.
Incest with Sister-in-Law - God Will Punish (21)
And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.
Summary
Yes, male homosexuality is set forth as being a capital crime, like a number of family relations crimes. In terms of the sentence given it, it is more heinous in God's sight than certain kinds of incest and period violation. But for those of you who like to beat up on homosexuals, note that it is not the most heinous. The most heinous is taking both a woman and her mother. There, the punishment is not just death, but death by fire.
So, no. The appropriate Biblical teaching regarding how to deal with these family crimes is not internment in a prison camp.
On the other hand, if you want to rush to impose the Biblical sentence of death, keep in mind that for consistency you must be ready to hand out death sentences for bestiality, all adulterers, and most types of incest. You also can't include lesbians in your plan. While Scripture certainly does teach that lesbianism is a sin, the code doesn't provide for lesbianism to be punished.
Thursday, May 31, 2012
10 comments:
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10. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you; and abstain from doing to others what you would not wish upon yourself.
After applying that law to others, or rather before you do, apply the stricter exposition that Jesus gives defining murder, adultery, etc. to yourself and turn yourself in for your own sentence.
ReplyDeleteThanks for that Jman,
ReplyDeleteSeems no discussion is complete without the old "judge not- lest ye be judged" quip.
Yet these judgements speak of the heart of God. These judgements shows the extent of His contempt for these sins... for various reasons. Reasons that one would do well to consider.
Now some of these judgements are nuanced as well. Not exactly telling the whole story, Jman.
For example, it is actually a good thing to uncover your brothers wife (v. 21)... if your brother is dead. To raise up children in his honor.
You see, there is a difference between honor and dishonor Jman. And nuances to "murder, adultery, etc" that you should appreciate.
However, this theonomy is no longer practiced by Israel. This theonomy ceased being practiced with the granting of monarchial rule rather than priestly rule (1 Samuel 8).
Then the option of "applying that law" became a monarchical option. An option that was not applied... much to Israels detriment.
So in closing Jman, having Turretin "turn himself in" would be both senseless and sentenceless :)
"After applying that law to others, or rather before you do, apply the stricter exposition that Jesus gives defining murder, adultery, etc. to yourself and turn yourself in for your own sentence."
ReplyDeletea) It seems pretty clear you haven't read the post. There is no punishment by the people for adultery of the heart or hatred in the heart, just as there is no punishment by the people for visiting a woman during her period.
b) Jesus explains the law more clearly, no doubt, but he's talking about what is right and holy in the sight of God, not about what the people should punish with capital punishment.
-TurretinFan
You don't see the parity of lesbianism and homosexuality?? The punishment would be the same.
ReplyDeleteBy analogy?
Do not think women should partake of the Lord's Supper??
"You don't see the parity of lesbianism and homosexuality?? The punishment would be the same.
ReplyDeleteBy analogy?"
a) There isn't parity. There is similarity or analogy.
b) The code here does specify female bestiality and male bestiality separately and punishes both. It could have done the same with male and female homosexuality, but it did not.
c) We shouldn't be eager to expand the criminal sanctions of the law.
"Do not think women should partake of the Lord's Supper??"
a) Only those who trust in Christ and can discern the Lord's body should partake.
b) Since women are baptized, and since there is nothing distinctively male about the supper, there's no reason to think they aren't included.
This is not analogous to the issue of lesbianism, because male homosexuality is distinctively male.
-TurretinFan
What does the title mean exactly? Can you be a little more clear for those who aren't familiar with a "150 mile fence" reference?
ReplyDeleteThere's no reason to promote the person to whom I'm referring.
ReplyDeleteJtheJman,
ReplyDelete... not sure from what framework you are coming into this debate but I would note a couple of verse constructs that I would hope you are not far from?
We, as a goal to the converted, to the babe in Christ on their way to maturity, are on this path to that mature Life in Christ in this life or sojourning:
1Ti 1:5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1Ti 1:6 Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion,
1Ti 1:7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Now the purpose of the Law of Righteousness is even now to bring a soul to an awareness of their fallen nature and lifestyle that is opposed to the Lifestyle and Light of Christ Adam was living before his fall so as to receive the gift of repentance and the forgiveness of sins. Our focus now is the transformation work of the Spirit being washed by the blood of the Lamb and brought into an active relationship and fellowship and communion with Them, that is, with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Law was given as a schoolmaster or an eye examiner or as Words whereby God with the gift of Faith opens the ears of the hearer, the eyes of the seer to receive the Faith once delivered to the Saints whereby one's soul is washed and sanctified and justified and is placed in the Body with Christ as Our Head.
With that said, what do you mean when you ask one to "turn yourself in for your own sentence?"
Is that to be taken as sarcasm? Are you being sarcastic?
I agree that those are the word of God in the OT law for Israel as a theocratic state until Jesus took the kingdom away from Israel - Matthew 21:43-46. Paul applied ex-communication for similar sins, not the death penalty by the state.
ReplyDeleteI Corinthians 5
Do you think those punishments should be applied and carried out in US law today?
Are you a theonomist?
I also don't understand the title as to what it has to do with the content of the article. ( Like TUAD)
Wow. Sorry to say, but you guys are really jumpy, and that's putting it very nicely.
ReplyDeleteYes I read the blog. I suppose that since there is no earthly punishment for heart-adultery, heart-murder, or others, but should any then conclude that there is no punishment ever at all from any? I always assumed that God would judge adulterers of any sort, not just the more active ones.
It seemed to me that as Jesus expounded the Law, he wasn't explaining it to satisfy curiosity. One of the lessons I take from it is that sin is lurking much closer to my heart than my hands, and justice will be had, therefore I ought to fear God.
When we have embarrassments to humanity recommending such things as 150ft high fences, and those embarrassments taking on the name of Christ, then worse, taking up the ministry of Christ, it would seem mete for Christians in general, and specifically those in ministry, to, as is recommended by the Lord, be very wary of sin; to strive for the sort of purity Peter commends to us. Such a commendation is fitting to the man who wants that fence, to examine himself against the law, then to preach Christ rather than his own heart.
Maybe you blogger folk are too theologically sophisticated to realize that Christians need to gaze into the law, applying it to themselves, to learn holiness and to recognize their sentence apart from Christ. This bit of law from Leviticus does far more than give theocratic Israel just sentences for law breakers, it also reveals God's holiness and hatred of sin. Every Christian needs it as much as Israel ever did.
That all said, why be jerks? Because a commendation of self-examination, self-discipline, and church discipline (all things we learn about from a rightly expounded law) doesn't outright smell like heresy to me.
The comment initially jumped to my mind from this:
"On the other hand, if you want to rush to impose the Biblical sentence of death, keep in mind that for consistency you must be ready to hand out death sentences for bestiality, all adulterers, and most types of incest."
Consistency also applies the law to ourselves, and all are condemned by it. If I understood Jesus correctly, you would be hard pressed to find any who are not adulterers.