Tuesday, June 02, 2009

Murder Update - Tiller Receives Justice

Apparently George Tiller, a notorious murderer of children, was himself murdered by an unknown assailant. It was wrong of the assailant to do this, and yet I rejoice that this killer of children has received substantive (though not procedural) justice that he would not have received under the laws of the place where he was.


Thanks to Ms. La Shawn Barber for pointing out both this murder and another murder that happened about the same time (link). In the second case, however, the murdered person did not receive substantive justice - he was not himself guilty of a crime worthy of death (as far as we can tell).


Anonymous said...

So it appears Tiller underwent a late term abortion (of sorts) himself.

Anonymous said...

If someone had a gun to the head of a child intending to shoot him, and the law intended to do nothing, would it be wrong to take him out to save the child?

Turretinfan said...

Question is too hypothetical.

Anonymous said...

Ok, I'll ask straight. Why is it wrong to kill someone to save innocent lives? We will all be prepared to do that in various scenarios, this is just one more scenario.

Turretinfan said...

It's generally wrong to kill other people. Thus, the correct question is what justification would there be for taking the person's life under this circumstance.

The question is not "why can't we kill him" - the question is "why could we?"

The correct answer is that to save the life of a stranger by killing another stranger is not normally sufficient justification. That answer is not intuitively satisfying for everyone.


Pilgrimsarbour said...

I grant that these are tough issues in more than one respect. For example, after 9/11 I was not accorded the authority by God or the government of this country (which He in His wisdom had given us and which is under His authority) to hunt down Muslims and "make them pay" for what they had done. (I admit to being angry enough to fantasize about it; not to mention my perpetual anger over the untold millions who have been brought to a Christless eternity through those wretched teachings).

Nor does He grant me authority as an individual to take the life of someone with whom I have a severe and righteous disagreement, no matter how repulsive and destructive they may be.

For the one we have a justly constituted military to carry out our government's authoritative orders when it comes to war. Unlike the adherents of Islam, the individual Christian has no God-given authority to murder a Muslim for his heretical beliefs.

For the other, neither does God grant me the authority to murder an abortion doctor, as repulsive to God's law and man's existence as that individual may be.

Now consider, you've heard this question asked: if I were to go back in time, and knowing what I know, should I kill Hitler? What if by doing so I cause someone else to live who should have died? And what if that person turns out to be a far greater brute and murderer than Hitler? Wouldn't I be responsible and accountable to God for that?

I thank God every day that He is in charge of everything. "We see so little here..." Let's leave the temporal prime directive (and everything else in reality) in His capable hands.

God's Sovereignty Rules!

Anonymous said...


you wrote: "....For example, after 9/11 I was not accorded the authority by God or the government of this country (which He in His wisdom had given us and which is under His authority) to hunt down Muslims and "make them pay" for what they had done. ...."

I would say, most, if not all "emigrated" Muslims to this country are glad for that!

I would equally say, most, if not all natural born "made" Muslims, U.S. citizens might not really take to heart what you say. It is a matter of perspective.


Because when you go to a country, like I have, where Isalmic laws, of various stripes is enforced, natural law seems to embed in the souls of those emigrates the freedoms of thought and act one experiences here in the United States when once they experience the freedoms!

I am reading a book recently published, The Law is not of Faith, and in the back last section, Theological Studies, David VanDrunen does the Lord justice by focusing on how "natural law" has slumbered among the Reformed over the last century! I believe there is a turning now where natural law will again come forth and the Righteous in the land will enact civil liberties whereby existant abortion laws in this country will be overturned and we will be able to have some relief from it as the end of days comes nearer than they are now? That's my hope and prayer in any event.

Natural law as created is "Righteousness". It is this "Righteousness" latent in the Elect that springs eternal when once the Word of Faith is proclaimed to their ears and hearing occurs by the Sanctifying work of the Spirit. Without Election, it makes no difference how loud the proclamation or by Who it is made and where, whenever. The ears to hear is as much a part of election as the Word itself. You cannot have ears to hear without the Word of God nor can you have the Word of God without ears to hear to understand it. I would then be very dogmatic in saying that "ears to hear" is the Gift of Eternal Life as much as the Word, whereby we live our lives under natural laws also.

The "murder" of the unborn in one sense is a violation of natural laws which all born from "conception" are under; and not as the current laws seem to want to reflect, only after one is born from the womb, not born in it!

As for the Elect being aborted or a reprobate, natural law is what is needed to be enforced so that all birth is protected by it.

I know that can open up a world of debates and I didn't say that to do as much and I am sorry if it does again? I simply am saying that to justify the fact that "murder" is not naturally a part of the present heavens and earth established by natural law so the murderer should be held to account for violating the natural law he violated.

As one should know, justifiable killing is the only natural way to put to death a person in this present circumstance.

If we would rise up and embrace "truthfully" natural law, abortion law would be aborted and rescended and made of no effect legally.

Would that stop abortions? No.

Now is the time for the Elect Church, the Holy Christian Church, to rise up and voice our affirmation for "natural law" because it is "Righteousness" in this present creation and for no other reason.

God, with foreknowledge, predetermined who are His at conception, so, in a sense, though regretable, if one is aborted by the sinful nature violating natural law, I am certain of their place before God.

That cannot be said of the reprobate nature conceived in the womb.

I am not prepared to say whether the killing in a Lutheran Church does anything more than color the fabric of society. It in no way establishes what God has ordained and established for us all before the foundation of the world was laid.

Let the man who murdered the murderer abortionist be held to account and punished for his crimes against humanity.

Jay Dyer said...

I agree with you, TF.