The Phoenix of 1 Clement and Roman Catholic Canon Apologetics

Apologist for the Roman Catholic canon, David Szárász, has offered some responses (Part 1; Part 2) to Steve Christie who criticized the book of 1 Clement because it erroneously asserts the existence of the merely legendary bird, the Phoenix. (For discussion of the manuscripts of 1 Clement, see this link)

The book referred to as 1 Clement does not identify its own author.  The various traditions as to authorship include Clement of Rome and Clement of Philippi (mentioned in Philippians 4:3) and some take the author as serving in a secretarial capacity to a larger ecclesiastical body (see the discussion here, for example).  For ease of reference I will refer to the author of the book as Clement.

Clement makes an argument based on the Phoenix, a bird that today is generally accepted to have been a myth, but in the first century was viewed as potentially real as can be seen from the works of authors such as Herodotus (484-425 BC) (Herodotus on the Phoenix) and Pliny (d. AD 79)(The Phoenix according to Pliny), each of whom had some reservations regarding whether the bird might be fable.  Tacitus (A.D. 55-120), possibly writing after 1 Clement was written, thinks that the legend is dubious but the bird itself is real (The Phoenix according to Tacitus).   

David Szárász says he does not think that Clement made an error (for his exact words, see this clip, and the appendix below). 

David offers a translation of 1 Clement 25. David doesn't credit the source of the translation, but it appears to be the translation provided by Kenneth J. Howell in "Clement of Rome and the Didache" from the "Early Church Fathers" series (published in 2012 by the "Coming Home Network"), in the sense that the only difference is the insertion of a Greek word in parentheses.  (Later in the video, David does cite Howell's work, so certainly David had some kind of access to Howell's translation.)

David then claims that he doesn't see anything in the text, which which would indicate that Clement believes the bird exists (for his exact words, see this clip, and the appendix below).  Howell offers the following note: "Clement's use of the legend of the Phoenix is drawn from literary knowledge of several Greek sources. It is not necessary to assume that Clement thought the story of the Phoenix to be historically true, though we cannot exclude that possibility. He may well have simply used an example commonly believed in his culture to stress that the idea of resurrection was not absurd, even to pagans."

David then says that although Herodotus provides evidence that people had such a legend, Clement's reliance on this myth does not mean that Clement though it was real (for his exact words, see this clip, and the appendix below)

During David's response, Tony L (from "The Good Fight") raised an important counter-point (link to the place where Tony L offers the point).  I want to give credit where credit is due, which is why I mention Tony, but I don't want to imply that Tony in any way endorses my response, so let me phrase the counter-point on my own terms.  Incidentally, I believe that Tony is using the Roberts-Donaldson translation provided below.

First, Clement directly says ὄρνεον γάρ ἐστιν (orneon gar estin - for there is a bird).  David's translation expresses it "There exists a bird," which (while slightly less literal) conveys the same point.  Clement does not say "some people say there is a bird," or the like.

Second, Clement makes the claim that this bird was created by God to provide an illustration of the resurrection, which is not a claim made by Herodotus.  David does not show Howell's translation of 26:1 on the screen, but Howell has: "Do we think it is a great marvel if the Creator of everything would perform a resurrection of those who have served him in holiness in the confidence of good faith when he shows us the greatness of his promise through a bird?" (emphasis added) 

David's counter to Tony's argument was to say that he could talk about a legendary Hungarian bird, without intending for the listener to think that he (David) believes that the legend is real.  According to David it would be natural to say that in Hungary there is a bird that does this and that, but to mean only that the bird exists in their mind. (For his exact words, see this clip.) 

While that could weakly answer the portion of the argument from Clement saying "there is a bird", it does not address the problem of Clement saying that God shows us the resurrection through a bird.  Clement's use of the phoenix as God showing the resurrection does not work if the phoenix is just a human myth, and consequently not part of God's creation.

As can be seen from David's slide (reproduced above), the criticized material comes from what is designated as chapter 25 (and the first line of chapter 26) in most editions of this work.  As there are multiple translations of the chapter, I offer them here for comparison to one another:

Trans. by William Wake (originally published in 1693), there designated as Chapter 12:1-6 (notes omitted):

LET us consider that wonderful type of the resurrection which is seen in the Eastern countries: that is to say, in Arabia.

2 There is a certain bird called a Phœnix; of this there is never but one at a time: and that lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near, that it must die, it makes itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices into which when its time is fulfilled it enters and dies.

3 But its flesh putrifying, breeds a certain worm, which being nourished with the juice of the dead bird brings forth feathers; and when it is grown to a perfect state, it takes up the nest in which the bones of its parent lie, and carries it from Arabia into Egypt, to a city called Heliopolis:

4 And flying in open day in the sight of all men, lays it upon the altar of the sun, and so returns from whence it came.

5 The priests then search into the records of the time: and find that it returned precisely at the end of five hundred years.

6 And shall we then think it to be any very great and strange thing for the Lord of all to raise up those that religiously serve him in the assurance of a good faith, when even by a bird he shows us the greatness of his power to fulfil his promise?

Trans. by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson (published in 1867), there designated as Chapter 25 (for context, I'm providing also the first sentence of what is designated as Chapter 26).  

[Chapter 25] Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phœnix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed. [Chapter 26] Do we then deem it any great and wonderful thing for the Maker of all things to raise up again those that have piously served Him in the assurance of a good faith, when even by a bird He shows us the mightiness of His power to fulfil His promise?

A footnote in this translation states: "This fable respecting the phœnix is mentioned by Herodotus (ii. 73), and by Pliny (Nat. Hist. x. 2), and is used as above by Tertullian (De Resurr. § 13), and by others of the fathers." The next footnote, regarding the first line of Chapter 26, states: "Literally, "the mightiness of His promise.""

Trans. by John Keith (published in 1885), there designated and divided as in the Roberts/Donaldson translation, above (notes omitted):

[Chapter 25] Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about.  There is a certain bird which is called a phœnix.  This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years.  And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies.  But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the deed bird, brings forth feathers.  Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis.  And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode.  The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed. [Chapter 26] Do we then deem it any great and wonderful thing for the Maker of all things to raise up again those that have piously served Him in the assurance of a good faith, when even by a bird He shows us the mightiness of His power to fulfil His promise?

Trans. Charles H. Hoole (published in 1885), there designated as 1 Clement 25:1-5 and 1 Clement 26:1:

[25:1] Let us consider the wonderful sign that happeneth in the region of the east, even about Arabia. [2] There is a bird which is called the phoenix. This, being the only one of its kind, liveth for five hundred years. And when the time of its death draweth near, it maketh for itself a nest of frankincense and myrrh and the other perfumes, into which, when its time is fulfilled, it entereth, and then dieth. [3] But as its flesh rotteth, a certain worm is produced, which being nourished by the moisture of the dead animal, putteth forth feathers. Then, when it hath become strong, it taketh the nest wherein are the bones of its ancestor, and bearing them, it flieth from the region of Arabia to that of Egypt, to the city which is called Heliopolis; [4] there, in day-time, in the sight of all, it flieth up, and placeth them upon the altar of the sun, and having done so, returneth back. [5] The priests, therefore, look into the registers of the times, and find that it has come at the completion of the five-hundredth year. [26:1] Shall we then think it great and wonderful, if the Maker of all things shall make a resurrection of those who, in the confidence of a good faith, have piously seized him, when even by means of a bird he showeth the greatness of his promises?

Trans. J. B. Lightfoot (published in 1889), there designated as in Hoole's:

[25:1] Let us consider the marvelous sign which is seen in the regions of the east, that is, in the parts about Arabia. [2] There is a bird, which is named the phoenix. This, being the only one of its kind, liveth for five hundred years; and when it hath now reached the time of its dissolution that it should die, it maketh for itself a coffin of frankincense and myrrh and the other spices, into the which in the fullness of time it entereth, and so it dieth. [3] But, as the flesh rotteth, a certain worm is engendered, which is nurtured from the moisture of the dead creature and putteth forth wings. Then, when it is grown lusty, it taketh up that coffin where are the bones of its parent, and carrying them journeyeth from the country of Arabia even unto Egypt, to the place called the City of the Sun; [4] and in the daytime in the sight of all, flying to the altar of the Sun, it layeth them thereupon; and this done, it setteth forth to return. [5] So the priests examine the registers of the times, and they find that it hath come when the five hundredth year is completed. [26:1] Do we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?

Trans. Kirsopp Lake (published in 1912), there designated as in Hoole's and Lightfoot's:

[25:1] Let us consider the strange sign which takes place in the East, that is in the districts near Arabia. [2] There is a bird which is called the Phoenix, This is the only one of its kind, and lives 500 years; and when the time of its dissolution in death is at hand, it makes itself a sepulchre of frankincense and myrrh and other spices, and when the time is fulfilled it enters into it and dies. [3] Now, from the corruption of its flesh there springs a worm, which is nourished by the juices of the dead bird, and puts forth wings. Then, when it has become strong, it takes up that sepulchre, in which are the bones of its predecessor, and carries them from the country of Arabia as far as Egypt until it reaches the city called Heliopolis, [4] and in the daylight in the sight of all it flies to the altar of the Sun, places them there, and then starts back to its former home. [5] Then the priests inspect the registers of dates, and they find that it has come at the fulfilment of the 500th year. [26:1] Do we then consider it a great and wonderful thing that the creator of the universe will bring about the resurrection of those who served him in holiness, in the confidence of a good faith, when he shows us the greatness of his promise even through a bird?

The most recent and widely received scholarly translation of 1 Clement is found in "The Apostolic Fathers," by Michael W. Holmes. I'm reluctant to reproduce the entirety of Holmes' translation here.  However, I would like to focus on the word translated "paradoxical" by Howell but as "wonderful," "marvelous," and "strange" in the older translations.  Holmes offers "remarkable."  

David went on to point out that many church fathers similarly viewed the phoenix as a symbol of the resurrection.  This, of course, doesn't resolve the question of whether Clement thought that the phoenix was a real bird.  David scoffs at the idea that the church fathers may have believed that the phoenix was a real bird, but considering the number of legendary beasts that were accepted as real before the Renaissance, it should not be shocking to him.  People make mistakes.  

Holmes notes (p. 79 and 81): "25:1-5 The story of the phoenix, well known in antiquity, was widely used (with varying levels of credulity) by early Christian writers; sanction for this usage was found in Ps. 92:12 (LXX 91:13), where in the Greek LXX phoinix meaning "palm tree" was confused with phoinix meaning "phoenix bird." (source) The presence of an invalid justification from a misunderstanding based on a Greek translation tends to undermine David's attempted buttressing of Clement with later writers.  

David went to cite Gerhard Johann Voss, but it is not clear that David understands what he's reading there.  Voss seems to be arguing not that Clement did not believe the myth of the phoenix, but that such beliefs existed at that time, and consequently the presence of such beliefs does not rule out Clementine authorship.

David also provides a quotation from Misako Himuro, "The Phoenix in the First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians." Renaissance Studies 12, no. 4 (1998): 523–44. The specific quotation is this (p. 531): "It is hard to tell whether Clement himself believed the story of the phoenix or only used it as a means to persuade his Greek audience by incorporating their own fable."

David also refers to two notes by Howell: one that I've reproduced above, and the other: "Now Clement draws out the implication of the myth of the Phoenix by arguing from the lesser to the greater (a minori ad majorem). If the ancients could believe in life after death as embodied in the story of the Phoenix, why is it strange to believe that the true God could raise someone from the dead?"

However, the counter-point to both Himuro and Howell is that Clement does not merely argue that it shouldn't be hard to believe one thing if you believe the other thing: Clement suggests that the Phoenix is God's way of demonstrating the resurrection in nature, like his previous example of sowing seeds, which Clement presumably took from the canonical gospels. 

Finally, David cites John W. Raad (his citation: "An Analysis of the Rhetoric of Clement of Rome, with Special Reference to the Epistle of the Corinthians. 1949, p. 61") who seems to adopt my and Mr. Christie's conclusion that Clement thought that the myth was true: "We may smile as we read the unquestioning simplicity which accepts the story of the Phoenix and uses it as an illustration, but we are apt to forget that among his most cultivated heathen contemporaries many accepted it as true and others left it an open question." This is also the rebuttal to David's appeal to the patristic era authors: it is not farfetched that their knowledge of the natural sciences was imperfect.

Ultimately, while I respect the effort that David put into providing his presentation on the question, I cannot agree with his conclusion.  Clement straightforwardly says that "there is a bird," describes it with specificity including geographical details that would be irrelevant to his purpose if he did not think it real, and claims it for the Creator, not for the ingenuity of the Egyptians.

I should add that David makes other arguments, that are not addressed here, because they seem to me to be too tangential to the question.  However, there is one final claim by David that highlights his defensive approach to this issue, in which he claims that we cannot prove something is an error unless we are omniscient (!)(for his exact words, see this clip, and the appendix below) That extreme standard should, of course, prevent David from claiming that either Mr. Christie or the present response is in error. 

*** 

Appendix I: Computer-generated transcript of David Szárász's comments: 

(12:09-22 from "Clement Versus the Phoenix: David's Response Pt 2"):

Well, Steve, it's because I don't believe there's an error. That's why. That's why I didn't inform the poor guy, the poor uninformed guy. That's why. Yeah.

(21:41-24:51 from "Clement Versus the Phoenix: David's Response Pt 2")

He wants to say like look if we can find an analogy of resurrection here and here and here why do you even why would you even doubt that resurrection is a true thing you know and so he he brings up the last thing which is about the phoenix and he calls it a paradoxical sign because that's what it is in Greek a paradox uh which is like strange or you know something ach it's difficult to you I I don't think like Clement says, "Oh, look at this miracle or something." No, it's just look at this strange sign. And he says, "Given in the eastern regions that is in Arabia, there exists a bird called phoenix and goes and so forth. you know the 500 years which repeats uh and how the bird resurrects and finally the priests studied the historical records a priest actually in Helopolis which is in Egypt. So he is talking here about a specific region a specific nation that believes the phoenix is a real bird. Now I don't see in the text anything that would say or indicate that Clement believes that this bird exists. Let me give you an example. I can say well among the Hungarians there is this bird called to rule which is a bird basically uh in in the in their like Hungarian myth there among the Hungarians there is this bird to rule which impregnates this woman called Emma and it will serve a child. Now I can give you this narrative. Does it mean that I believe that this tou is a real bird which exist and impregnated am? No. I'm describing what the Hungarians believed. I mean that's what they believed. So uh and by the way I I give one thing many times or given an example from real life which I'm always telling to my students of surgery. you know when I'm looking over them how they're doing the procedure and sometimes they will say okay I'll try and I say remember what master Yoda said don't try do it you know [laughter] I mean uh I mean does it mean I believe Master Yoda is a real guy who exists somewhere you know in the space I'm just giving you something you know that I've heard of and I don't have to say well but I don't actually believe it or it's a myth. So I think and that's why I didn't tell tell this Protestant about the phoenix because I don't think it can be necessarily proven that this is something what actually Clement believed

(26:06-23) from "Clement Versus the Phoenix: David's Response Pt 2"

So just because I'm going to hearken to Herodotus you know or you know to say well there are nations which believe in the resurrection in some way or there exist a resurrection analogy. Does that mean that Clement himself believe that bird is real? I don't think so. I don't think so.

(1:06:28-48) from "Clement Versus the Phoenix: David's Response Pt 2"

I mean, I'm not saying I believe in the phoenix. It's just, you know, um since we're not omniscient and we we don't know, you know, many things, it's like strictly speaking, it's not an error because we we cannot prove it didn't exist. 

1 Clement and Election

The author of 1 Clement would agree that it is Scripture that is to be our rule of faith.  He wrote:

1 Clement 53:1 For ye know, and know well, the sacred scriptures, dearly beloved, and ye have searched into the oracles of God. We write these things therefore to put you in remembrance.

That said, the author of 1 Clement provided numerous verses (I've identified 33 below) that mention God's calling and election, the number of the elect, and related topics.  The following are provided out of Lightfoot's excellent translation (available here)(other translations, notes, etc. available here), and are provided in response to a tweet by Leighton Flowers, which I plan to address another time.

1. 1 Clement prologue:1 The Church of God which sojourneth in Rome to the Church of God which sojourneth in Corinth, to them which are called and sanctified by the will of God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Grace to you and peace from Almighty God through Jesus Christ be multiplied.
2. 1 Clement 1:1 By reason of the sudden and repeated calamities and reverses which are befalling us, brethren, we consider that we have been somewhat tardy in giving heed to the matters of dispute that have arisen among you, dearly beloved, and to the detestable and unholy sedition, so alien and strange to the elect of God, which a few headstrong and self-willed persons have kindled to such a pitch of madness that your name, once revered and renowned and lovely in the sight of all men, hath been greatly reviled.
3. 1 Clement 2:4 Ye had conflict day and night for all the brotherhood, that the number of His elect might be saved with fearfulness and intentness of mind.
4. 1 Clement 6:1 Unto these men of holy lives was gathered a vast multitude of the elect, who through many indignities and tortures, being the victims of jealousy, set a brave example among ourselves.
5. 1 Clement 8:6 Seeing then that He desireth all His beloved to be partakers of repentance, He confirmed it by an act of His almighty will.
6. 1 Clement 11:1 For his hospitality and godliness Lot was saved from Sodom, when all the country round about was judged by fire and brimstone; the Master having thus fore shown that He forsaketh not them which set their hope on Him, but appointeth unto punishment and torment them which swerve aside.
7. 1 Clement 11:2 For when his wife had gone forth with him, being otherwise minded and not in accord, she was appointed for a sign hereunto, so that she became a pillar of salt unto this day, that it might be known unto all men that they which are double-minded and they which doubt concerning the power of God are set for a judgment and for a token unto all the generations.
8. 1 Clement 20:3 The sun and the moon and the dancing stars according to His appointment circle in harmony within the bounds assigned to them, without any swerving aside.
9. 1 Clement 27:5 Who shall say unto Him, What hast thou done? or who shall resist the might of His strength? When He listeth, and as He listeth, He will do all things; and nothing shall pass away of those things that He hath decreed.
10. 1 Clement 29:1 Let us therefore approach Him in holiness of soul, lifting up pure and undefiled hands unto Him, with love towards our gentle and compassionate Father who made us an elect portion unto Himself.
11. 1 Clement 29:2 For thus it is written: When the Most High divided the nations, when He dispersed the sons of Adam, He fixed the boundaries of the nations according to the number of the angels of God. His people Jacob became the portion of the Lord, and Israel the measurement of His inheritance.
12. 1 Clement 32:3 They all therefore were glorified and magnified, not through themselves or their own works or the righteous doing which they wrought, but through His will.
13. 1 Clement 32:4 And so we, having been called through His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves or through our own wisdom or understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of heart, but through faith, whereby the Almighty God justified all men that have been from the beginning; to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.
14. 1 Clement 33:3 For by His exceeding great might He established the heavens, and in His incomprehensible wisdom He set them in order. And the earth He separated from the water that surroundeth it, and He set it firm on the sure foundation of His own will; and the living creatures which walk upon it He commanded to exist by His ordinance. Having before created the sea and the living creatures therein, He enclosed it by His own power.
15. 1 Clement 35:3 What then, think ye, are the things preparing for them that patiently await Him? The Creator and Father of the ages, the All holy One Himself knoweth their number and their beauty.
16. 1 Clement 35:4 Let us therefore contend, that we may be found in the number of those that patiently await Him, to the end that we may be partakers of His promised gifts.
17. 1Clem 36:1 This is the way, dearly beloved, wherein we found our salvation, even Jesus Christ the High priest of our offerings, the Guardian and Helper of our weakness.
18. 1 Clement 36:2 Through Him let us look steadfastly unto the heights of the heavens; through Him we behold as in a mirror His faultless and most excellent visage; through Him the eyes of our hearts were opened; through Him our foolish and darkened mind springeth up unto the light; through Him the Master willed that we should taste of the immortal knowledge Who being the brightness of His majesty is so much greater than angels, as He hath inherited a more excellent name.
19. 1 Clement 38:1 So in our case let the whole body be saved in Christ Jesus, and let each man be subject unto his neighbor, according as also he was appointed with his special grace.
20. 1 Clement 38:3 Let us consider, brethren, of what matter we were made; who and what manner of beings we were, when we came into the world; from what a sepulchre and what darkness He that molded and created us brought us into His world, having prepared His benefits aforehand ere ever we were born.
21. 1 Clement 46:3 And again He saith in another place; With the guiltless man thou shalt be guiltless, and with the elect thou shalt be elect, and with the crooked thou shalt deal crookedly.
22. 1 Clement 46:4 Let us therefore cleave to the guiltless and righteous: and these are the elect of God.
23. 1 Clement 46:6 Have we not one God and one Christ and one Spirit of grace that was shed upon us? And is there not one calling in Christ?
24. 1 Clement 46:8 Remember the words of Jesus our Lord: for He said, Woe unto that man; it were good for him if he had not been born, rather than that at he should offend one of Mine elect. It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about him, and be cast into the sea, than that he should pervert one of Mine elect.
25. 1 Clement 49:5 Love joineth us unto God; love covereth a multitude of sins; love endureth all things, is long-suffering in all things. There is nothing coarse, nothing arrogant in love. Love hath no divisions, love maketh no seditions, love doeth all things in concord. In love were all the elect of God made perfect; without love nothing is well pleasing to God:
26. 1 Clement 50:2 Who is sufficient to be found therein, save those to whom God shall vouchsafe it? Let us therefore entreat and ask of His mercy, that we may be found blameless in love, standing apart from the factiousness of men. All the generations from Adam unto this day have passed away: but they that by God's grace were perfected in love dwell in the abode of the pious; and they shall be made manifest in the visitation of the Kingdom of God.
27. 1 Clement 50:6 This declaration of blessedness was pronounced upon them that have been elected by God through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.
28. 1 Clement 52:2 For the elect David saith; I will confess unto the Lord, and it shall please Him more than a young calf that groweth horns and hoofs. Let the poor see it, and rejoice.
29. 1 Clement 58:2 Receive our counsel, and ye shall have no occasion of regret. For as God liveth, and the Lord Jesus Christ liveth, and the Holy Spirit, who are the faith and the hope of the elect, so surely shall he, who with lowliness of mind and instant in gentleness hath without regretfulness performed the ordinances and commandments that are given by God, be enrolled and have a name among the number of them that are saved through Jesus Christ, through whom is the glory unto Him for ever and ever. Amen.
30. 1 Clement 59:2 but we shall be guiltless of this sin. And we will ask, with instancy of prayer and supplication, that the Creator of the universe may guard intact unto the end the number that hath been numbered of His elect throughout the whole world, through His beloved Son Jesus Christ, through whom He called us from darkness to light, from ignorance to the full knowledge of the glory of His Name.
31. 1 Clement 59:3 [Grant unto us, Lord,] that we may set our hope on Thy Name which is the primal source of all creation, and open the eyes of our hearts, that we may know Thee, who alone abidest Highest in the lofty, Holy in the holy; who layest low in the insolence of the proud, who settest the lowly on high, and bringest the lofty low; who makest rich and makest poor; who killest and makest alive; who alone art the Benefactor of spirits and the God of all flesh; who lookest into the abysses, who scanest the works of man; the Succor of them that are in peril, the Savior of them that are in despair; The Creator and Overseer of every spirit; who multipliest the nations upon earth, and hast chosen out from all men those that love Thee through Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, through whom Thou didst instruct us, didst sanctify us, didst honor us.
32. 1 Clement 64:1 Finally may the All seeing God and Master of spirits and Lord of all flesh, who chose the Lord Jesus Christ, and us through Him for a peculiar people, grant unto every soul that is called after His excellent and holy Name faith, fear, peace, patience, long-suffering, temperance, chastity and soberness, that they may be well pleasing unto His Name through our High priest and Guardian Jesus Christ, through whom unto Him be glory and majesty, might and honor, both now and for ever and ever. Amen.
33. 1 Clement 65:2 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you and with all men in all places who have been called by God and through Him, through whom be glory and honor, power and greatness and eternal dominion, unto Him, from the ages past and forever and ever. Amen.

Clement and Eternal Conscious Torment

Chris Date (CD) has a video in which he claims that Clement of Rome held to "conditional immortality" (link - if you're interested to hear what he has to say about Clement of Rome, you can jump forward to timestamp 26:00 and listen to 44:09).  

First, note that we refer to the book we refer to as 1 Clement, a letter from the church at Rome to the church at Corinth, is traditionally identified as having been written by Clement of Rome, even though Clement may not have written the letter or may not have done so in an individual capacity.   The author of the book avoids using the first person to refer to himself, does not identify himself as Clement in the text of the work, and the letter begins, "The Church of God which sojourneth in Rome to the Church of God which sojourneth in Corinth...."  Likewise, the postscript of the letter asks that the messengers (who presumably carried the letter) be speedily returned to "us."  Although the author of 1 Clement is traditionally identified as Clement of Rome, I will refer to the author as "the author of 1 Clement." 

At least one other letter has been attributed to Clement of Rome (it's referred to as 2 Clement), but it is by another author.  The mid-second century author of that work does refer to "eternal punishment" (2 Clement 6:7), affirms that the dead will be judged (2 Clement 1:1), uses "death" to refer to something like spiritual death ("our whole life was nothing else but death" 2 Clement 1:6), suggests that the fire of the afterlife will have a hardening effect like fire has on clay with the effect of repentance being impossible there (2 Clement 8:1-3), and identifies the punishment of the damned with "grievous torments in unquenchable fire" (2 Clement 17:7) after quoting from Isaiah 66:24 (2 Clement 17:5).  Naturally, CD does not provide his detailed comments on this work, and he does not need to, since it is not the work of Clement of Rome.  I merely mention it as a minor aside against the false and ridiculous notion that the doctrine of eternal conscious torment should be associated with Augustine, centuries later despite being the understanding of Christians before then.

Returning to 1 Clement, the full text of the epistle in the original Greek and parallel English can be found at the following link (link to full text of 1 Clement).  

While Hell is not the central focus of the letter, the author of 1 Clement, does touch on the subject a little.

XI. Διὰ φιλοξενίαν καὶ εὐσέβειαν Λὼτ ἐσώθη ἐκ Σοδόμων, τῆς περιχώρου πάσης κριθείσης διὰ πυρὸς καὶ θείου, πρόδηλον ποιήσας ὁ δεσπότης ὅτι τοὺς ἐλπίζοντας ἐπ’ αὐτὸν οὐκ ἐγκαταλείπει, τοὺς δὲ ἑτεροκλινεῖς ὑπάρχοντας εἰς κόλασιν καὶ αἰκισμὸν τίθησιν. 2. Συνεξελθούσης γὰρ αὐτῷ τῆς γυναικὸς ἑτερογνώμονος ὑπαρχούσης καὶ οὐκ ἐν ὁμονοίᾳ, εἰς τοῦτο σημεῖον ἐτέθη, ὥστε γενέσθαι αὐτὴν στήλην ἁλὸς ἕως τῆς ἡμέρας ταύτης, εἰς τὸ γνωστὸν εἶναι πᾶσιν ὅτι οἱ δίψυχοι καὶ οἱ διστάζοντες περὶ τῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ δυνάμεως εἰς κρίμα καὶ εἰς σημείωσιν πάσαις ταῖς γενεαῖς γίνονται.

11. For his hospitality and godliness Lot was saved from Sodom, when all the country round about was judged by fire and brimstone; the Master having thus fore shown that He forsaketh not them which set their hope on Him, but appointeth unto punishment and torment them which swerve aside. [2.] For when his wife had gone forth with him, being otherwise minded and not in accord, she was appointed for a sign hereunto, so that she became a pillar of salt unto this day, that it might be known unto all men that they which are double-minded and they which doubt concerning the power of God are set for a judgment and for a token unto all the generations.

The author of 1 Clement argues that God has appointed unbelievers to "κόλασιν καὶ αἰκισμὸν" (punishment and torture).  Even if we were to accept annihilationist claims that kolasin can refer to a death penalty, as such (and that seems to be a stretch at best), aikismon is not similarly ambiguous: it means torture not death.  Moreover, the author of 1 Clement links these punishments and tortures with the fire and brimstone (πυρὸς καὶ θείου) that was put on Sodom.  

Furthermore, the author of 1 Clement suggests a perpetuity to the judgment by saying that the judgment will be "unto all generations" like Lot's wife who "unto this day" is a pillar of salt. 

Because CD has convinced himself to reduce the punishment of Sodom to annihilation, he fails to account for the "torment" aspect of the comment.  Indeed, eternal conscious torment fits much better both with "punishment" and "torment."  Likewise, while one can certainly appreciate that the memory of a death can serve as a reminder, the ongoing existence of Lot's wife as a pillar of salt suggests an emphasis on the damned continuing to exist in some form so that they serve a similar memorial function. 

What remains to be said?  The author of 1 Clement does not explicitly say that the torment will last forever.  So, if someone wants to claim that 1 Clement does not rule out the idea that the torment might end some day, I think it's fair to acknowledge that 1 Clement does not directly address this topic.

That said, because the author of 1 Clement focuses on the punishments and torture of the wicked, 1 Clement is not consistent with the annihilationist focus on cessation of being as the reward of the wicked.

CD argues from 1 Clement 9 that capital punishment (a term the author of 1 Clement never uses) awaits the wicked.  That section reads as follows:

IX. Διὸ ὑπακούσωμεν τῇ μεγαλοπρεπεῖ καὶ ἐνδόξῳ βουλήσει αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἱκέται γενόμενοι τοῦ ἐλέους καὶ τῆς χρηστότητος αὐτοῦ προσπέσωμεν καὶ ἐπιστρέψωμεν ἐπὶ τοὺς οἰκτιρμοὺς αὐτοῦ, ἀπολιπόντες τὴν ματαιοπονίαν τήν τε ἔριν καὶ τὸ εἰς θάνατον ἄγον ζῆλος. 2. Ἀτενίσωμεν εἰς τοὺς τελείως λειτουργήσαντας τῇ μεγαλοπρεπεῖ δόξῃ αὐτοῦ. 3. Λάβωμεν Ἐνώχ, ὃς ἐν ὑπακοῇ δίκαιος εὑρεθεὶς μετετέθη, καὶ οὐχ εὑρέθη αὐτοῦ θάνατος. 4. Νῶε πιστὸς εὑρεθεὶς διὰ τῆς λειτουργίας αὐτοῦ παλιγγενεσίαν κόσμῳ ἐκήρυξεν, καὶ διέσωσεν δι’ αὐτοῦ ὁ δεσπότης τὰ εἰσελθόντα ἐν ὁμονοίᾳ ζῷα εἰς τὴν κιβωτόν.

9. Wherefore let us be obedient unto His excellent and glorious will; and presenting ourselves as suppliants of His mercy and goodness, let us fall down before Him and betake ourselves unto His compassions, forsaking the vain toil and the strife and the jealousy which leadeth unto death. [2.] Let us fix our eyes on them that ministered perfectly unto His excellent glory. [3.] Let us set before us Enoch, who being found righteous in obedience was translated, and his death was not found. [4.] Noah, being found faithful, by his ministration preached regeneration unto the world, and through him the Master saved the living creatures that entered into the ark in concord.

CD is not wrong that the author of 1 Clement has in mind death as a consequence of sin.  However, the death that the author of 1 Clement uses as an illustration is the ordinary death that we all eventually face, and that even Noah himself eventually faced.  Thus, "capital punishment" as a description is a spin too far.

CD argues that the author of 1 Clement uses "death" in simply the ordinary way.  This is inaccurate.  First, the author of 1 Clement uses "death" in a way that also seems to refer to spiritual death in his quotation of "death into the world" (1 Clement 3).  Moreover, this usage is particularly relevant, because it links jealousy with death: "seeing that they have conceived an unrighteous and ungodly jealousy, through which also death entered into the world" (ζῆλον ἄδικον καὶ ἀσεβῆ ἀνειληφότας, δι’ οὗ καὶ «θάνατος εἰσῆλθεν εἰς τὸν κόσμον».  1 Clement 3)  This word for jealousy is, of course, the same Greek word used in 1 Clement 9.

Moreover, jealousy is what the author of 1 Clement identifies as a critical problem in Corinth.  Thus, jealousy is discussed in 1 Clement 3, and then repeatedly in 1 Clement 4, 5, and 6.  The author of 1 Clement comes back to jealousy in 1 Clement 9, 14, 43 and 45.  Finally, the author of 1 Clement brings up jealousy one last time in the conclusion at 1 Clement 63.

Perhaps even more significantly than the jealousy-death connection in general, the author of 1 Clement states at 1 Clement 4: "Jealousy caused Joseph to be persecuted even unto death, and to come even unto bondage." (Ζῆλος ἐποίησεν Ἰωσὴφ μέχρι θανάτου διωχθῆναι καὶ μέχρι δουλείας εἰσελθεῖν.)  

We know, and it seems fair to assume the author of 1 Clement knew, that Joseph was not literally persecuted to physical death, but instead to an imprisonment.  In case you are wondering, it's not because a different Greek word for death is used: it's the same Greek word for death.  

CD presents six other examples of this word use in the text, which falsely suggests that the author of 1 Clement only uses the word in one particular way. 

Moreover, the translation CD provided for 1 Clement 51 seems inaccurate and misleading in the context of our discussion.

LI. Ὅσα οὖν παρεπέσαμεν καὶ ἐποιήσαμεν διά τινας παρεμπτώσεις τοῦ ἀντικειμένου, ἀξιώσωμεν ἀφεθῆναι ἡμῖν· καὶ ἐκεῖνοι δέ, οἵτινες ἀρχηγοὶ στάσεως καὶ διχοστασίας ἐγενήθησαν, ὀφείλουσιν τὸ κοινὸν τῆς ἐλπίδος σκοπεῖν. 2. Οἱ γὰρ μετὰ φόβου καὶ ἀγάπης πολιτευόμενοι ἑαυτοὺς θέλουσιν μᾶλλον αἰκίαις περιπίπτειν ἢ τοὺς πλησίον· μᾶλλον δὲ ἑαυτῶν κατάγνωσιν φέρουσιν ἢ τῆς παραδεδομένης ἡμῖν καλῶς καὶ δικαίως ὁμοφωνίας. 3. Καλὸν γὰρ ἀνθρώπῳ ἐξομολογεῖσθαι περὶ τῶν παραπτωμάτων ἢ σκληρῦναι τὴν καρδίαν αὐτοῦ, καθὼς ἐσκληρύνθη ἡ καρδία τῶν στασιασάντων πρὸς τὸν θεράποντα τοῦ Θεοῦ Μωϋσῆν, ὧν τὸ κρίμα πρόδηλον ἐγενήθη. 4. «Κατέβησαν γὰρ εἰς ᾅδου ζῶντες», καὶ «θάνατος ποιμανεῖ αὐτούς». 5. Φαραὼ καὶ ἡ στρατιὰ αὐτοῦ καὶ πάντες οἱ ἡγούμενοι Αἰγύπτου, «τά τε ἅρματα καὶ οἱ ἀναβάται» αὐτῶν οὐ δι’ ἄλλην τινὰ αἰτίαν ἐβυθίσθησαν εἰς θάλασσαν ἐρυθρὰν καὶ ἀπώλοντο, ἀλλὰ διὰ τὸ σκληρυνθῆναι αὐτῶν τὰς ἀσυνέτους καρδίας μετὰ τὸ γενέσθαι τὰ σημεῖα καὶ τὰ τέρατα ἐν Αἰγύπτῳ διὰ τοῦ θεράποντος τοῦ Θεοῦ Μωϋσέως.

51. For all our transgressions which we have committed through any of the wiles of the adversary, let us entreat that we may obtain forgiveness. Yea and they also, who set themselves up as leaders of faction and division, ought to look to the common ground of hope. [2.] For such as walk in fear and love desire that they themselves should fall into suffering rather than their neighbors; and they pronounce condemnation against themselves rather than against the harmony which hath been handed down to us nobly and righteously. [3.] For it is good for a man to make confession of his trespasses rather than to harden his heart, as the heart of those was hardened who made sedition against Moses the servant of God; [4.] whose condemnation was clearly manifest, for they went down to hades alive, and Death shall be their shepherd. [5.] Pharaoh and his host and all the rulers of Egypt, their chariots and their horsemen, were overwhelmed in the depths of the Red Sea, and perished for none other reason but because their foolish hearts were hardened after that the signs and the wonders had been wrought in the land of Egypt by the hand of Moses the servant of God.

Rather than "death shall be their shepherd," CD provides "and death swallowed them up," and omits "alive" from "into hell."  When he mentions this same section a few minutes later, to claim that "alive" has a uniform meaning in 1 Clement, he asserts that they go there to die, which is not what the text says.  

The author of 1 Clement is referring the rebellion of Korah described in Numbers 16, and particularly quoting from Numbers 16:30, which says that "they go down quick (i.e. alive) into the pit (i.e. hell)" (LXX: καταβήσονται ζῶντες εἰς ᾅδου), and from Psalm 49:14 (LXX Psalm 48:15, θάνατος ποιμανεῖ αὐτούς - [NETS] death shall be their shepherd ), which is about the sons of Korah.

If anything, the judgment of Korah is suggestive of the eternal conscious torment view.  The shepherding of those in Hades by the personification of Death is one that treats the dead as, in some sense, alive.

I will point out that "Death shall feed upon them" is another interpretation of the underlying Psalm.  The difference is similar to the difference between feeding someone and feeding upon someone.  Nevertheless, I agree with Lightfoot's translation of 1 Clement, which agrees with the New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS) translation of Psalm 48:15. 

Regarding 1 Clement 11, CD argues that "torture" is not a good translation of aikismos, because aikismos can also just refer to "bad treatment." Even if aikismos can more broadly include other kinds of bad treatment, the context is the reason it gets translated as "torture" or the like.  Moreover, if the meaning is even softer than "torture," this would only further undermine, not support, the denial that the author of 1 Clement held the eternal conscious torment view.  In any event, I disagree with CD's criticism of the translation.

I don't know of anyone who has translated it merely "bad treatment." Instead, here are some of the translations in addition to Lightfoot's translation (1869).

• William Burton (1647) translated: "punishment and plagues" (link at XIV in Burton's sectioning of the text)
• William Wake (1719) translated: "punishment and correction" (link) 
• Temple Chevallier (1833) translated: "punishment and correction" (link)
• John Keith (1897) included in Schaff's edition: "punishment and torture" (link)
• Kevin Edgecomb (2006) translated: "punishment and torments" (link)
• Adolf von Harnack (English ed. and trans. Jacob Cerone) (2021) translated: "punishment and torment" (p. 15)

Incidentally, I criticize the translation 1 Clement 51 that CD provided, but I don't know what translation CD is using.  I think the original language text of the epistle does not support his reading, though, regardless of his translation choice.

CD makes an argument that because the author of 1 Clement sees immortality and life as a gift from God for the righteous, that this implies that he does not think that the wicked will live forever in hell.  This is one of what I would refer to as the fundamental errors of CD's method of argumentation.  He provides a reductionist interpretation of life and death, and then imposes that interpretation onto certain texts.

CD argues that the author of 1 Clement takes the position that only believers will be resurrected.  On the other hand, this would not make a 1 Clement a holder of the conditional immortality position for which CD usually advocates, since that position affirms a general resurrection.  More bluntly, this reductionism misses the fact that for 1 Clement the resurrection that matters is the resurrection to life, not the resurrection to torment.

Moreover, 1 Clement's way of considering life, death, and resurrection does not follow CD's reductionism, as evidenced by 1 Clement 24, where the resurrection is compared to our daily sleeping and waking and to the growth cycle of plants.  Further evidence is provided in 1 Clement 25 where the author relates the myth of the Phoenix.  In the case of 1 Clement 24, the author of 1 Clement is following gospel metaphors for death, but - of course - these are metaphors.

I further criticism I have is that CD tends to spin 1 Clement and then treat the spin as though it was what 1 Clement says.  For example, around 39:00 to 39:15, CD repeatedly emphatically says that the author says "only ..." when, at most, CD would be justified in saying that the author of 1 Clement "only says" or "implies that only ...."  There are about 17 uses of "only" in the English of 1 Clement, the majority of those are "not only" and none of them is in the context of any of the above-discussed issues, except that the Phoenix is the "only one of its kind," despite its unusual 500 year cycle of life. 

According to CD, if Clement (and Ignatius) denied the general resurrection, they would still be "conditionalists" because of their denial of continued union of body and soul of the wicked.  This is because the "conditionalist" movement is being defined negatively, as a rejection of the eternal conscious torment position.

CD suggests to his listeners to claim that Clement and Ignatius are "indisputably conditionalists," which is a dramatic oversell of his conclusion.  We will address Ignatius in another post.  For now, suffice to say that there is no strong reason to deny that Clement held to the same view as the author of 2 Clement or other early Christian writers, who believed that what awaits the lost is an eternity of torment.

Michuta on the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonicals in 1 Clement

Beginning around page 56, Michuta tries to argue that "the earliest Christians considered the Deuterocanonical books to be divinely inspired."  His first example is 1 Clement - a book whose authorship is unknown, but is sometimes ascribed to Clement of Rome.

Michuta argues that 1 Clement 3:4 "quotes Wisdom 2:24." (p. 57)

1 Clement 3:4
For this cause righteousness and peace stand aloof, while each man hath forsaken the fear of the Lord and become purblind in the faith of Him, neither walketh in the ordinances of His commandments nor liveth according to that which becometh Christ, but each goeth after the lusts of his evil heart, seeing that they have conceived an unrighteous and ungodly jealousy, through which also death entered into the world.

Wisdom 2:24 states: "Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it." While Wisdom 2:24 is a possible reference here, a more obvious one is Romans 5:12, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Likewise, James 4:1-3 states: "From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts."

Indeed, the very next verses of 1 Clement provide a canonical basis for the jealousy argument, for it continues (vs. 4 is the last verse of 1 Clement 3):

1 Clement 4:1-7
For so it is written, And it came to pass after certain days that Cain brought of the fruits of the earth a sacrifice unto God, and Abel he also brought of the firstlings of the sheep and of their fatness. And God looked upon Abel and upon his gifts, but unto Cain and unto his sacrifices He gave no heed. And Cain sorrowed exceedingly, and his countenance fell. And God said unto Cain, Wherefore art thou very sorrowful and wherefore did thy countenance fall? If thou hast offered aright and hast not divided aright, didst thou not sin? Hold thy peace. Unto thee shall he turn, and thou shalt rule over him. {This last phrase has also been translated: Be at peace: thine offering returns to thyself, and thou shalt again possess it.} And Cain said unto Abel his brother, Let us go over unto the plain. And it came to pass, while they Were in the plain, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and slew him. Ye see, brethren, jealousy and envy wrought a brother's murder.

Thus, it is a stretch to say that 1 Clement 3:4 "quotes" from Wisdom 2:24, even if a few identical words can be be found there.

Michuta further asserts that 1 Clement 27:5-7 "is a quote from (or at least an allusion to) Wisdom 11:21 or 12:12." (p. 57)

1 Clement 27:5
Who shall say unto Him, What hast thou done? or who shall resist the might of His strength? When He listeth, and as He listeth, He will do all things; and nothing shall pass away of those things that He hath decreed. All things are in His sight, and nothing escapeth His counsel, seeing that The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament proclaimeth His handiwork. Day uttereth word unto day, and night proclaimeth knowledge unto night; and there are neither words nor speeches, whose voices are not heard.

Wisdom 11:21 states: "For thou canst shew thy great strength at all times when thou wilt; and who may withstand the power of thine arm?" and Wisdom 12: 12 states "For who shall say, What hast thou done? or who shall withstand thy judgment? or who shall accuse thee for the nations that perish, whom thou made? or who shall come to stand against thee, to be revenged for the unrighteous men?"

But again, the canonical books have similar statements (in fact, Wisdom is probably based on the canonical books to a significant extent):

 Job 9:12 "If he would take away, who shall turn him back? or who shall say to him, What hast thou done?" Job 9:19 "For indeed he is strong in power: who then shall resist his judgment?" Daniel 4:32 "and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he does according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and there is none who shall withstand his power, and say to him, What has thou done?" Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" Acts 1:7 "And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." Psalm 148:6 "He has established them for ever, even for ever and ever: he has made an ordinance, and it shall not pass away." Romans 9:18-19 "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?" Matthew 5:11 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Job 34:21 "For he surveys the works of men, and nothing of what they do has escaped him." Psalm 19:1-3 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament proclaims the work of his hands. Day to day utters speech, and night to night proclaims knowledge. There are no speeches or words, in which their voices are not heard."


Michuta further points out that 1 Clement 55:2-6 makes reference to the person Judith. (pp. 58-59) Michuta also points out that the author of 1 Clement uses Judith as a first example and Esther as a second example. These are just used as historical examples of "Many women being strengthened through the grace of God have performed many manly deeds." (1 Clement 55:3).  These examples come after the author's reference to pagan examples: "But, to bring forward examples of Gentiles also; many kings and rulers, when some season of pestilence pressed upon them, being taught by oracles have delivered themselves over to death, that they might rescue their fellow citizens through their own blood. Many have retired from their own cities, that they might have no more seditions." (1 Clement 55:1)

While we definitely hold Esther to be canonical, we do not know whether the author of 1 Clement had the same view, as Esther was the least well received of the canonical Old Testament books.  In other words, the pairing of Judith with Esther may be a double-edged sword - but in any case, the book is not cited as Scripture.

- TurretinFan

N.B. In this post, generally the Old Testament quotations are taken from Lancelot Brenton's translation of the Septuagint, since it is unlikely that the author of 1 Clement would have had access to the Hebrew originals.