The Ergun Caner Affair - One Collation of the Evidence

The Ergun Caner affair saddens me deeply.  Dr. Caner is an excellent orator.  He has great delivery - great timing - and he knows how to get a laugh.  I had hoped that the investigations made of Dr. Caner's alleged autobiographical embellishments would lead Dr. Caner to confess that he had sinned, to repent of that sin, and to try to make amends for what he had done.

I was not a fan of Caner's soteriological views before this affair came to light.  Still, when a Muslim began accusing Caner of various things, I immediately came out in support of Caner and pointed out the triviality of some of the criticisms (mispronunciations of words, for example) and the absurdity of some of the claims (that Caner was never a Muslim).  I even argued that a person who was named "Ergun Mehmet Caner" must certainly have been from a Muslim family.  Little did I know that I had been misled regarding his name - Ergun Michael Caner was not who I had thought.

I believe it was the video of Caner saying that he was born in Istanbul (next to another one saying he was born in Stockholm) that opened my eyes.  So, I began to address the issues in the hopes of restoring a man who I thought was a brother in Christ. I hoped that bringing these issues to light might persuade Caner to come clean - to correct the mistakes he made.  He even appeared to be taking a step in that direction, when he issued an apology that referred to various misstatements.  Unfortunately, it is hard to accept that the embellishments were just accidental misstatements.

While the investigation went on and quickly concluded at Liberty, I watched and hoped for Caner to repent. People encouraged me by suggesting that he might have possibly signed some kind of non-discussion deal with Liberty, requiring him to remain silent for a time.  I was also encouraged to note that a lot of the embellishments that had come to light were not continued after mid-2010 (as far as we could tell).

I also tried to convince myself that Caner had altruistic reasons for these embellishments.  They do make his stories more interesting and - until one discovers the truth - quite compelling. I convinced myself that Caner might have begun the embellishments as an attempt to get people fired up about the problem of Islam.  I figured Caner may have made the "one anonymous high school boy" story more exciting to get high school kids willing and motivated to share the gospel.

Some have even suggested that Caner made himself appear as he did to try to win the Muslims.  Unfortunately, I don't see any evidence that Dr. Caner reached out to the Muslims to any large extent.  Almost all of these embellishments were presented to primarily professing Christian audiences.

The fall-out has been big. The original Muslim critic who calls his site "fake ex muslims" still seems to want to argue that Ergun Caner was never a Muslim at all.  But surely Caner probably did say the shahada at some point.  His father was a serious enough Muslim that he legally changed his middle name from Martin to Mehmet.  Moreover, his father left his three Christian sons Korans in his will.

So then - why this post?  I still hold out hope that God will stir Caner's conscience and he will repent and be restored.  Maybe if he confronts himself with the facts that his comments were repeated - not one-time slips of the tongue - he will realize he owes his "critics" an apology.

A. Autobiographical Statements

1. "My full name is Ergun Mehmet Caner" or "Ergun Michael Mehmet Giovanni Caner."

Caner's real name is Ergun Michael Caner.  On many occasions, however, he has referred to himself as though "Mehmet" were his middle name.  He even did that on books that were published after September 11.

a) Short Version ("Ergun Mehmet Caner")

So he claimed at Bell Shoals (link).
So he claimed at Liberty Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed at Olive Baptist (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed at FBC Mount Vernon (link), while noting that "Mehmet" was something he took on later.
So he claimed at West Cabarrus Church (link).
So he claimed to Janet Parshall (link).
So he claimed to the students at SBTS (link).

b) Long Version ("Ergun Michael Mehmet Giovanni Caner" or something close to that)

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
\So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

Based on the evidence we've located, Ergun Michael Caner began to use the alias "Ergun Mehmet Caner" shortly after the September 11 terrorist attacks.  Caner at other times used an even more extravagant alleged full name of something sounding like "Ergun Michael Mehmet Giovanni Caner."

We've discussed this in more detail here:
i) Ergun Caner's Middle Name is what?
ii) Middle Name Issue Revisited (includes response to Geisler's claim)

2. Ancestry / Religion

Ergun has made a number of claims about his ancestry over the years. From what we have been able to determine, Caner's mother is Swedish and his father was Turkish.  He has also made various claims about his religious upbringing.

a. 100% Turkish / Fully Turkish / Turkish Parents

Caner has sometimes claimed to have been 100% Turkish.  In fact, I'm told that even this year he has made such a claim. I believe some of his supporters have claimed that although Caner's mother was Swedish, her parents had adopted her and she was genetically Turkish.

So he claimed with Tom McCall.
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed to Pastor Lloyd (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link) (example of the "fully Turkish").
So he claimed at Baptist General Conference of Oklahoma (link).
So he claimed to Janet Parshall (link).

b. Persian

Caner has sometimes claimed to have Persian ancestry (for example, on iTBN).

c. Anatolian (as distinct from Persian or Arab)

Caner has sometimes claimed to have Anatolian ancestry (for example, on Pastor's Perspective and in San Diego.)

d. Eastern Turk, toward the Kurdish Regions

So he claimed in From Islam to Christianity (link)

e. "Kurdush Tribe" "Kurdish" "Kurdish - Eastern Turk"
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

f. One Half of my Family is Wahabi

So he claimed with Craig von Buseck (link).

g. One Half of my Family is Sunni

So he claimed with Craig von Buseck (link).

h. "Extreme Devout"

So he claimed as quoted by John Ankerburg (link)

i. Said prayers in Bathroom / Locker Room

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

j. Got a Muslim Tattoo Before Conversion

So he apparently claimed at GGBTS (link).

3. Places of Residence / Upbringing / Arrival in USA

As far as I can tell, Caner was born in Sweden, moved to the USA when he was two years old, and grew up in or around Columbus, Ohio.

a. "Lived under ... Socialism, Facism, and Democracy" or "Socialism, Facism, Islamic Sharia law, and Democracy"

So he claimed on iTBN (link).
So he claimed on Issues Etc. (link).

b. (Always) Lived in "Majority" Muslims Locations

So he claimed at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).
So he claimed in From Islam to Christianity (link)
So he claimed in "My Conversion from Islam to Christianity (link)
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed on the Lee Strobel Testimony video (link).
So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).

c. Lived in Istanbul / "From Istanbul"

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he apparently claimed at Thomas Road Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed at the International Missions Conference (link).

d. Born in Turkey or Born in Istanbul

So he claimed to Harold Hendrick (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).

e. Raised in a Madrasa in Istanbul

So he claimed on the Rick and Bubba Show (link).

f. "My Madrassa in Istanbul" and "My Madrassa in Cairo" "Before we came to America"
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

g. Came as a Missionary to You / Came to Build Mosques

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to Richard Land (link).
So he claimed at the California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006 (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
So he claimed at Baptist General Conference of Oklahoma (link).
So he claimed at the International Missions Conference (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed at West Cabarrus Church (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
So he claimed to the students at SBTS (link).

h. Learned English in High School

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

i. Learned English by Studying American Dialects

So he apparently claimed at GGBTS (link).
So he apparently claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).

j. Was counseled on Marriage before Coming to US

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

k. Learned About America from Andy Griffith before coming to US

So he claimed at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed in his lecture, "Don't mess with the book" (link).
So he claimed in San Diego (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

l. Learned About America from Dukes of Hazzard (wanted to marry Daisy Duke)

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed on the Rick and Bubba Show (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

m. Watched Wrestling on Tapes Imported to Turkey

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

n. Viewed America, "all our lives," as "Oz" where money could be made quickly

So he claimed in a book edited by Norman Geisler (link).

o. Raised in Turkey, Cairo, Egypt, and Beirut (or Beirut and Cairo)

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).

p. Studied at a Madrasa in Beirut before coming to America

So he claimed at the California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006 (link).

q. Came to America at age 12

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

r. Came to America "when I was 13 years old"

So he claimed on the Rick and Bubba Show (link).

s. Came to America at "14 years old"

So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

t. Came to America in our teenage years or as a teenage boy or "in my teens" or "in my young teens"

So he claimed to Richard Land (link).
So he claimed to Pastor Lloyd (link).
So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

u. Came to America "entering high school"

So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).

v. Came to America in 1978 / during the Iran Crisis / "It was 1979" / somehow connected with Ayatollah Khomeini

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006 (link).
So he claimed to Zola Levitt (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed to Pastor Lloyd (link).
So he claimed in a book edited by Norman Geisler (link).
So he claimed on the Rick and Bubba Show (link).
So he claimed at GGBTS (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

w. "We finally settled in 1978"

So he claimed at Thomas Road Baptist Church (link).

x. Came to America in 1969

So he admitted in "The Secret of Islam" in 2011 (link)
So he admitted in a Turkish interview (link)

y. Had no Contact with Relatives in Turkey since 1969

So he admitted in a Turkish interview (link)

z. Came to America with both brothers

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed in a book edited by Norman Geisler (link).

aa. Watched Christian TV (while a Muslim) to Critique it

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

ab. Was Confused by High Heels and Toe Rings because of Turkish Culture

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

ac. Lived in the Inner City / Cement Jungle / Attended an "Urban" Church

So he claimed at the California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006 (link).
So he claimed at GGBTS (link).

ad. Held Back a Year to Learn English

So he claimed at the California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006 (link).

ae. Churches were Reluctant to Hire Him because His English was Poor

So he claimed at Baptist General Conference of Oklahoma (link).

4. Age at alleged Conversion

In "Unveiling Islam," the brothers claim that Emir was saved on "November 4, 1982," which was "the following year" from when Ergun was saved.  That would mean that Ergun was saved in 1981, when he 14 (if it was before November 3, 1981) or barely 15.  (see a special post on this topic)  At the Master's College the conversion of the brothers is said to be "in the years that followed" (link).

Ergun Caner graduated high school in the Spring of 1984.  So, if he was converted in 1982, that would imply either the second half of his sophomore year, or the first half of his junior year.  If he was converted in 1981, that would imply either the first half of his sophomore year, or the second half of his freshman year.  Ergun Caner was born November 3, 1966, so he would have been 16 on November 4, 1982 and 15 on November 4, 1981.

a. November 4, 1982 or just 1982

So he claimed on the Lee Strobel Testimony video (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed at Baptist General Conference of Oklahoma (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

b. Did Not See Father for 17 Years (puts post-conversion disowning at 1982)

So he claimed at the National Conference on Christian Apologetics 2013 (link).

c. "Late in Life" or "Later in Life"

So he claimed at the 2013 Summer Bible Conference (link).
So he claimed at the Buffalo Baptist Church 2013 Easter Sermon (link).
So he claimed at Bell Shoals (link).
So he claimed at West Cabarrus Church (link).

d. "Three years to enter the church" (seemingly implying the fourth is when he entered) or "for three years" said no or Jerry Tackett kept coming "for three years"

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Thomas Road Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).
So he claimed at Southcrest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

e. "Three and a half years"/ "Over Three Years" / "Almost Four Years" / "Four Years" into High School

So he claimed at the 2013 Summer Bible Conference (link).
So he claimed at Bell Shoals (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed at the Value Voters Summit 2009 (link).
So he claimed on the Rick and Bubba Show (link).
So he claimed at Olive Baptist (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed at FBC Mount Vernon (link).
So he claimed at the Shades Mountain Missions Conference 2010 (link).

f. Brothers saved one year later and/or while Caner was in College and/or Caner was in College one year (or eight months) after conversion

So he claimed at the 2013 Summer Bible Conference (link).
So he claimed on the Pastor's Perspective (link).
So he claimed at Bell Shoals (link).
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to Richard Land (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed at West Cabarrus Church (link).
So he claimed at the Shades Mountain Missions Conference 2010 (link).
So he claimed at Southcrest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to the students at SBTS (link).

g. "Senior Year" / "going into my Senior Year" / "Senior"

So he claimed in his testimony at Free CD Tracts (link).
So he claimed in "Why I am not a Muslim" (link).
So he claimed at Liberty Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed on Issues Etc. (link).
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed in San Diego (link).
So he claimed at GGBTS (link).
So he claimed at the International Missions Conference (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed at FBC Mount Vernon (link).
So he claimed at Southcrest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

h. "almost my senior year"

So he claimed on the Lee Strobel Testimony video (link).

i. Evangelism of Caner began his sophomore year

So he claimed on the Lee Strobel Testimony video (link).

j. "almost in college" or "going into college"

So he claimed in PHIL104 (link)
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Campus Church (link).
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at FBC Mount Vernon (link).

k. Read through Bible as "Young Boy".

So he claimed on iTBN (link).
(I have neglected to post the places where Ergun Caner said he went to a revival, because he thought it was "re-bible," and he had never touched a Bible.)

l. "17 Years of my life" as a Muslim or "17 years old"

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).

m. "17 and a half"

So he claimed at Campus Church (link).

n. "almost 18" / "17 going on 18"

So he claimed to Richard Land (link).
So he claimed at Baptist General Conference of Oklahoma (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

o. "18 Years of my life" he thought Christians hated him or he was immersed in Islam or he was 18 for his first Easter or he hated us until he was 18 or he first entered a church at age 18

So he claimed on iTBN (link).
So he claimed at Buffalo Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed in PHIL104 (link)
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
So he claimed to Janet Parshall (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

p. "18 years old, foot-long Muslim mullet hanging off the back of my head" 

So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).

q. "Did not pick up a Bible until he was 18 years old"

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

r. At age 30 had "been a Christian then for 12 years"

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

s. "Muslim for 20 years"

So he claimed at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).

t. Muslim until "almost 20"

So he claimed with Craig von Buseck (link).
So he claimed on Issues Etc. (link).

u. "half my life"

So he claimed with Craig von Buseck (link).
So he claimed in PHIL104 (link)
So he claimed in the LouRugg foreword (link)

v."late teens"

So he claimed on Issues Etc. (link).

w. "Summer of the Year between my Junior and my Senior Year"

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

x. Both his brothers got saved at his first sermon

So he claimed in "My Conversion from Islam to Christianity (link)
So he claimed at his Prestonwood sermon (link).
So he seemed to claim at Liberty Baptist Church (link).
So he seemed to claim at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).

y. Heard the Gospel before he came to America?

1) Yes
So he claimed on Issues Etc. (link).
2) No
So he claimed to Zola Levitt (link).

5. Studied Jihad

Caner has seemed to suggest over the years that he was trained in jihad.  His claims:

• He was taught jihad al-asghar in Columbus, or so he claimed at the 2013 Summer Bible Conference (link).
• He was a "jihadeen" / "mujihadeen" / "training in madrassa was three generations deep as a jihadeen" / "sworn to jihad at the age of 9" or so he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
• He was taught to convert by the sword, or so he claimed on Issues Etc. (link).
• So he seemingly claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link) with reference to a "Madras".
• So he seemingly claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link) by saying that he was "assuming that I was going to die for Allah."
• He was in the Islamic Youth Jihad in Ohio and Turkey, or so he claimed to Richard Land (link).
• He was in the Islamic Youth Jihad with his brothers, or so he claimed to Zola Levitt (link).
• He was a "jahideen", or so he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link) or a "jihadeen" as he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link) and at the International Missions Conference (link). 
• He came to "get" us, or so he claimed at the Master's College (link).
• He would be "behind you, and up to no good" if he had not been saved, or so he claimed at the International Missions Conference (link).

6. Arabic Knowledge 

Dr. Caner has alleged or suggested knowledge of the Arabic language on a number of occasions.  these claims don't seem justified (see this discussion from Dr. White and his Arabic tutor).  While Dr. Caner clearly has memorized some Arabic phrases and words, I don't think he himself would claim to be able to translate Arabic today.

a. Claimed to Translate Arabic Language Document

Claimed to translate a fatwa (with his brother), as analyzed here (link).

b. Claims to Speak Arabic

So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).

c. Speaking Apparent Gibberish, Supposedly Arabic

So he did at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).
So he did at Superconference 2005 (link)
So he did at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he did at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he did on the Rick and Bubba Show (link).
So he did at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he did multiple times to the Marine Corps (link).

Here's a nice comparison of two clips allegedly of the same phrase (link) regarding what is supposedly written on a wall of a mosque in Kabul.

d. Arabic was his Language before English

So he claimed in From Islam to Christianity (link)

e. Told the Story of Ishmael and Isaac at the Dome of the Rock in Arabic

So he claimed at Superconference 2005 (link)
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

f. Knows the Arabic (about the word for "beat" in the Koran)

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

g. Spoke English with an Accent and/or Broken English

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to the students at SBTS (link).

h. Claimed to be Writing a Commentary on the Koran

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link)
So he claimed on the John Ankerberg Show (link)

i. Challenges Muslims to debate in Arabic

So he claimed to Richard Land (link).

j. English was not his First or Second Language

So he claimed to Richard Land (link).

k. Able to read and translate the Koran

So he claimed to Zola Levitt (link).

l. Claimed to Speak Arabic

So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).

m. Claimed to just Speak Memorized Arabic Phonetically like Roman Catholics and Latin

So he claimed in San Diego (link).

n. Referred to Arabic (with Turkish) as "Our Language"

So he did at the Master's College (link).

o. Suggests he "Knows the Language" as distinct from "Some Cracker"

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

p. Claimed he Goes to Listen to the Arabic Sermon in a Mosque

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

7. Turkish Knowledge

Less often (from what I've heard), Caner has claimed (or suggested) he was able to speak Turkish.  In fact, I suspect Caner knows a lot more Swedish than Turkish.

a. Speaks to Son(s) in Turkish and/or they will speak Turkish to him with a southern accent and/or they ignore him in "two languages"

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed at West Cabarrus Church (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

b. States some apparent gibberish is Turkish

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

c. Claims to speak Turkish

So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).

d. Referred to Turkish (with Arabic) as "Our Language"

So he did at the Master's College (link).

e. Suggested he Understood American Television based on Captions while in Turkey

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

8. "We Dressed Differently"?

Caner has claimed that prior to his conversion he dressed in a way that was distinctively different from typical Americans, such as wearing Keffiyah, wearing robes, and so on.  On the other hand, most of the pictures we find of him and his father show him wearing typical American clothing (Link to Counter-evidence including response to Geisler's attempted defense).  (Sadly, Caner seems to be making it sound like this was his normal outfit back in the day.)

So he claimed in "My Conversion from Islam to Christianity (link)
So he claimed at Liberty Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006 (link).
So he claimed at Thomas Road Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed on the Lee Strobel Testimony video (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed to Pastor Lloyd (link).
So he claimed at the Value Voters Summit 2009 (link).
So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).
So he claimed in San Diego (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).
So he claimed to the students at SBTS (link).

9. Disowned by His Family

Caner was apparently disowned by his non-custodial father upon converting to Christianity (isn't that tragedy enough?).  However, Caner has sometimes claimed that he was disowned by his "family" (for example, with Tom McCall and on Watchmen on the Wall and to Richard Land) or that he "lost my family" (for example, on Pastor's Perspective, at Values Voter Summit 2010 and at Liberty Baptist Church and with Pastor Lloyd and on the Rick and Bubba Show and at FBC Pearl City) or that he "had no family" (for example, Ashburn Baptist Church or Southwest Baptist Church).  He even claimed he was "kicked out of my house" and had to live in people's garages and basements, at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).  At the Shades Mountain Missions Conference 2010 (link), it was "I lose my family and I lose everything."

10. Regarding his Father

Caner seems to enjoy making his father seem very important.  I don't personally recall him saying his father was an imam, but Caner compared himself to a preacher's kid (PK) (sorry, I haven't included that one in this list).

a. Son of a Muslim Leader? 

The only corroborating evidence of leadership we can find is in an association (see the discussion here regarding his prominence in the community) and Jimal Jivanjee's memory that has him as a leader in the community.

b. "An Ulema/Ulima" (sic) / A Muezzin / Haddithic Scholar

i) A Muezzin
So he claimed on Issues Etc. (link).
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link) (even claimed he climbed a minaret).
So he claimed at the California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006 (link) (claimed he climbed a minaret).
So he claimed to Pastor Lloyd (link).
So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

In "Unveiling Islam," the brothers claim that "Father did the call to prayer on occasion." (p. 17) One assumes that this is the true story.

ii) "An Ulema" (sic)
So he claimed at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).
So he claimed in the LouRugg foreword (link)
So he claimed on Issues Etc. (link).
So he claimed at the Value Voters Summit 2009 (link).
So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).
So he claimed on the Rick and Bubba Show (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).

iii) A Hadithic Scholar
So he claimed at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).

c. Architect (or Civil Engineer)?

Caner has repeatedly claimed that his father was an architect, but the evidence we've located has not corroborated this assertion (link to discussion of the topic).

So he claimed at Thomas Road Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to Pastor Lloyd (link).
So he claimed in a book edited by Norman Geisler (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link). (including claim to have worked on a mosque in Brooklyn and in Toledo)
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
So he claimed to the students at SBTS (link).

d. "For lack of a better term, a missionary"?

So he claimed at Baptist General Conference of Oklahoma (link).

e. Built Mosques?

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link) (but he didn't seem to know that mosques have minbars in another message at the same church)
So he claimed to Richard Land (link), including claiming to have built them in Toledo and Columbus, Ohio (see this special item regarding the Toledo mosque).
So he claimed at Thomas Road Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed to Pastor Lloyd (link).
So he claimed at Baptist General Conference of Oklahoma (link).
So he claimed at FBC Mount Vernon (link).

f. Surrounded by Caliphats (sic) at his death?

See the discussion here (link).

g. Father's "Wives" / Polygamy

One of the claims he made about his father is that his father had "other wives" besides Caner's mother or "many wives."  While it appears Caner's father did remarry after divorcing, there does not appear to be any way to substantiate these seeming allegations of polygamy.

i) His father had "more than one wife at a time"
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

ii) His father had three wives
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

i) His father had "many wives"
So he claimed in From Islam to Christianity (link)
So he claimed to Richard Land (link).
So he claimed in his lecture, "Don't mess with the book" (link).
So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).

ii) His father had "multiple wives"
So he claimed to Richard Land (link).

iii) His father had "other wives"
So he claimed in "My Conversion from Islam to Christianity (link)
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed to Pastor Lloyd (link).
So he claimed at the Value Voters Summit 2009 (link).
So he claimed at FBC Pearl City (link).

iv) His Mom discovered his father was married to more than one woman
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

v) His Father immigrated with wives (sometimes with reference to Abraham lie)
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006 (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

vi) His Father's "Second Wife" convinced the brothers to visit their dying father
So he claimed in Unveiling Islam (link)

vii) His Father Divorced his Mother because the Father blamed her for the Sons' (or Ergun's) Conversion
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).

11. Mother Issues

Sometimes, Caner has portrayed his mother as though she were a devout or practicing Muslim.  She may have been for a while, but Emir's accounts portray her as more of a hippy universalist, by the time that Ergun Caner allegedly converted.

a. Took off her Hijab or Chador in Baptistry
So he claimed in From Islam to Christianity (link)
So he claimed at the California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006 (link).
So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).

b. Wore the Chador
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

c. Wore the Chador even after the brothers' conversion
So he claimed to Richard Land (link).

d. Mother was a Wahabi
So he claimed to Richard Land (link).

e. Mother was a Sufi
So he seemingly claimed to Richard Land (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

12. Half-Brothers

We can't find any evidence of Caner having any half-brothers.  For example, no such men are found in Acar Caner's will.  Nevertheless, Caner has claimed to have them.

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).

13. Half-Sisters "Learning to Read"

In 2005, he claimed his half-sisters were only now learning to read, thanks to the Marines (link).  His father died in 1999, and his daughters were probably born significantly before that.

14. Seemingly Unrelated Issues

Not all of Caner's seeming embellishments relate to supposedly being a devout Muslim.  The following are some examples of issues where one's eyebrows are raised:

a) Fat as a Child?
See the discussion here (link)
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

b) Father-in-law from "Possum Kill, NC"?
There is a separate post on this subject (link).  In short, there does not appear to be such a place.  I'm told that when Caner was at Liberty he had some kind of row boat with "Possum Kill" lettered on the side, but I can't confirm that this.

So he claimed at Bell Shoals (link).
So he claimed at Liberty Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).
So he claimed at GGBTS (link).
So he claimed at Olive Baptist (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed at FBC Mount Vernon (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
So he claimed at the Shades Mountain Missions Conference 2010 (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

c) First Job
i) Not a Convenience Store
So he claimed at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).
He claimed he didn't work at a convenience store, at Thomas Road Baptist Church (link).
ii) A Convenience Store
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
He claimed he worked at a 7-11 to the Marine Corps (link).

d) Roller Skating
i) Overdid it
So he claimed at Fall Chapel 2010 (link)
ii) You can't roller skate in sand
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link)
(See here)

e) Church in which he was Saved
i) Doesn't exist any more
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
ii) Still exists
It does apparently exist.

f) Was a Straight C Student in College
So he claimed at GGBTS (link), although he apparently was a Presidential scholar in college.  (At Olive Baptist (link) and at West Cabarrus Church (link) he suggested he was a straight C student in high school.)

g) Claimed He was Tasered in a way that was very painful
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).

h) Was "Finishing Up" his Doctorate in 1999
So he claimed at the National Conference on Christian Apologetics 2013 (link).

i) Received his Doctorate in 2001
So he claimed at ErgunCaner.com (link).

B. Debating Claims

There are very few things that Caner has done (that we know of) that could qualify as debates.  Apparently, Caner engaged the Rational Response Squad in some kind of dialog some years ago, and apparently Caner had an email exchange with one Muslim apologist. Caner may also have appeared on TV along side a Muslim talking head (although I can't seem to find any such clip of Caner). Aside from this, we are still hoping to find some evidence of Caner actually debating anyone, although Caner does seem to have brought a few speakers into class for an informal dialog (as discussed here).  Nevertheless, we see Caner making a number of claims.

1. Formal Debates with Timed Speeches, etc.

Sometimes people have claimed that Caner just meant informal dialogs.  On at least one occasion, Caner explicitly described the alleged kind of format of these debates.

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

2. "I do Debates" or "Muslims ... will debate us" (or similar phrase)

So he claimed with Craig von Buseck (link).
So he claimed on the John Ankerberg Show (link)
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
So he claimed to the students at SBTS (link).

3. Frequent Debates 

In a number of places, Caner claims that his life includes a lot of getting yelled at in debates or speaking to hostile crowds.

So he claimed with Tom McCall
So he claimed on iTBN.
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).
So he claimed at GGBTS (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

4. "Many Debates over the past 10 years"

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

5. 13 Colleges and Universities

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

6. Debate at University of North Texas

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

7. Debated Imam named "Abi"

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).

8. Debated Ulima and Imams

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

9. Debated Woman Muslim Scholar 

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).  (Allegedly on Wayne Shepherd open line radio / Moody show)
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link). (Only here he claims it was at the University of Chicago)
So he claimed on the Rick and Bubba Show (link).

10. 41 Debates

So he claimed at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).
So he claimed to the students at SBTS (link).

11. 60 Debates / Sixty-some-odd Debates

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

12. Debated Shabir Ally

So he claimed at SBTS in front of Mohler (link).
So he claimed to Richard Land (link).

13. Debated in Nebraska

So he claimed to Richard Land (link).

14. Debated "Sunni, Sufi, Alawite, Shia" Muslims

So he claimed in his testimony at Free CD Tracts (link).

15. Had enough to debates to refer to them as "every debate" or "all of my debates"

So he claimed in From Islam to Christianity (link)
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).

16. Was "Rushed" on the Platform

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

17. Twelve Years of Debating

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

18. Debated in May 2005

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

19. Debated at the University of Chicago

So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).

20. About Fifty Debates per Year

So he claimed at the North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 (link).

21. Gets Debate Opponents to Sign Contract - No Payment Requirement

So he claimed at Olive Baptist (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

22. Was Headed to Kenya to Debate Maathai Tribesman who were Muslims

So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).

23. Debated Muslims in St. Louis

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

24. Debated a Muslim at Texas Tech University (Allegedly Recorded) 

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

25. Debated Michael Moore and Called him a "Fat Pig"

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

26. Debates "Muslims and B'hai and Buddhists and Hindi and all types"

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

27. Debated Homosexuals

So he claimed to Janet Parshall (link).

28. Debated in London and Glasgow

So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

29. About to Debate Hindu (Shaivite) and a "Christian professor" on "Sister Faiths"

So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

C. Incorrect Statements Regarding Islam/Hadith/Koran

One troubling aspect of Caner's autobiography is that he presents himself as a former devout Muslim, steeped in knowledge of Islam, etc.  On the other hand, he makes a number of erroneous statements about the Koran, Hadith, and Islamic issues.  I haven't even bothered to document all the times he has cited the Hadith as "Hadith 9:57" or the like.

1. Mohammed/Koran Teaches that Ishmael not Isaac was almost killed by Abraham

A number of times, Caner has claimed that the Koran teaches (or Mohammed taught) that Ishmael, rather than Isaac, was nearly sacrificed on the mount.  While such a view is widespread among modern Muslims, you can't find that statement in the Koran.

So he claimed with Tom McCall.
So he claimed at Superconference 2005.
So he claimed on Issues Etc.
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at GGBTS (link).

2. Mohammed Borrowed from the Gospel of Barnabas

A number of times, Caner has claimed that Mohammed borrowed from the Gospel of Barnabas.  This is impossible, since the Gospel of Barnabas was written hundreds of years after the Koran.

So he claimed on iTBN.
Se he claimed on Issues Etc.
So he claimed on the John Ankerberg Show (link)

3. Mohammed Didn't Believe we Worship the Same God

Caner sometimes claims (quite correctly) that we don't worship the same deity as Islam.  However, Caner has also alleged that Muslims, and at least in one case Mohammed himself, also do not believe this (link to "Secrets of Islam" discussion of this point).  Caner is wrong, as far as the Koran is concerned.

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed on the John Ankerberg Show (link)

4. Circumcision is called "Maşallah" in Islam

So he claimed in "Why I am not a Muslim" (link).

Actually, that's not the Arabic or Turkish word for circumcision.  Moreover, oddly enough, Caner also claimed that was the name of the prayer beads in Islam, on Issues Etc. (link).

5. You're Supposed to say "Inshallah" after You Experience Some Misfortune

As explained at the links, "inshallah" is a forward-looking statement like "Lord willing."

So he claimed in "Why I am not a Muslim" (link).
So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at GGBTS (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

6. Surah 1 has Six Verses

In fact, by the usual Sunni enumeration, it has seven verses.

So he claimed in "Why I am not a Muslim" (link).
So he claimed at GGBTS (link).
So he claimed at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).
So he claimed at West Cabarrus Church (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

7. Eid al-Adha is the Celebration at the End of Ramadan

So he claimed in "The Secret of Islam" (link).

It actually comes a couple of months later.

8. Eid al-Fitr is the Commemoration of Abraham's Near-Sacrifice of His Son

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

9. Ramadan has 40 days?

So he claimed in PHIL104 (link).
So he claimed at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge (link).

It actually has about 29 days.  It's a lunar month.  It never has 40 days.

10. Abinadab is a Pillar of Islam

This one is a real puzzle, since none of the pillars sound like "abinadab".  He seems to use that term to refer to the Shahada, but sometimes later seems to add the Shahada as one of the pillars as well.

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Thomas Road Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at the Master's College (link).
So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).
So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

11. Hadith is Nine Volumes

The English translation of one of the collections is nine volumes, but there are other collections and the entire body of hadith is not complete in those nine volumes.

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).
So he claimed at Southwest Baptist Church (link).

12. Strict Muslims Don't Allow Their Photographs to be Taken

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

13. Training School is called a Madras (sic)

I think you may find other examples of this, but Caner seems sometimes to refer to a madrassa as a madras.

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

14. There is no Pulpit in a Mosque

This is a particularly remarkable claim for someone who claims to be the son of a mosque architect.

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

15. If a Christian speaks in a Mosque, the Mosque would have to be razed

Again, this is a very strange claim - but it does suggest that Caner has not spoken in many mosques.

So he claimed at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

16. Confused about Relationship between John 14 and Surah 61:6 and the name Mohammed / its meaning

So he appeared to be at Ashburn Baptist Church (link).

17. Baruch as a Major Prophet of Islam

So he claimed to Richard Land (link).

18. Injeel is a term for evil spirits?

So he claimed to Richard Land (link).

19. Singing is Forbidden in Mosques?

So he claimed at GGBTS (link).

20. Garbled Surah 61 Relationship to John 16

So he did at GGBTS (link).

21. Claimed there is a meeting of the "caliphat" [sic] every 8 years

So he did at the Northwest Baptist Conference (link).

22. Claimed there are Four Collections of the Hadith

So he did to the Marine Corps (link).

23. Mohammed Got the Koran on His 40th Birthday

So he claimed to the Marine Corps (link).

24. Muslims Pray to the East

So he claimed to the Ohio Free Will Baptists (link).

D. Bibliography of Sources

I have limited time.  The following should provide links to the various sources used above, but there is much more out there, even despite some seeming efforts to sanitize the web.

Main Sources
1. Conversation with Tom McCall
2. "What Worship Looks Like" FBC Lyons, November 17, 2013
3. 2013 Summer Bible Conference, July 21, 2013
4. iTBN Contributions
5. Pastor's Perspective, January 22, 2010 (also mentions Prestonwood Sermon) (see this comparison to other testimonies)
6. Buffalo Creek Baptist Church - Easter 2013
7. "Rip the Roof Off" at Bell Shoals - 2010
8. SBTS Panel Discussion - November 14, 2003
9. Testimony at Free CD Tracts
10. From Islam to Christianity - November 2, 2009
11. Interview with Craig von Buseck (original material)
12. Watchmen on the Wall - 2013
13. Liberty University - Superconference 2005
14. "My Conversion from Islam to Christianity"
15. Fall Chapel 2010
16. The Secret of Islam - May 6, 2011
17. Why I am not a Muslim - May 7, 2011
18. The Secret of Islam - October 29, 2011
19. Ergun Caner in Others' Books - Various
20. Liberty Baptist Church - October 10, 2010
21. Values Voter Summit 2010
22. PHIL104 "Contemporary World View"
23. Foreword to Louis Ruggiero's Book
24. Issues Etc. (multiple appearances)
25. Ashburn Baptist Church (2003 - 2005, various messages)
26. John Ankerberg Show (numerous pre-2013 clips)
27. Campus Church 2008 (various messages)
28. Faith and Family Interviews (Richard Land, interview - various dates)
29. California Christian Apologetics Conference 2006
30. Thomas Road Baptist Church Sermons (various)
31. Zola Levitt (ZL 338 - Signs of the End 2001)
32. Excerpts from Unveiling Islam (link)
33. Testimony on LeeStrobel.com
34. Southwest Baptist Church - January 23, 2010
35. Turkish Article interviewing Caner - June 13, 2003
36. "The Greatest Day in Church" at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge - January 25, 2009
37. Pastor Lloyd Interviews Ergun Caner - January 2009
38. Chapter 14 of "Why I Am a Christian" (Norman Geisler, editor) (with some other tidbits from other books)
39. Lecture titled "Don't Mess with the Book" - January 5, 2009
40. My Summary of Caner's Yearbook Information and related thoughts (And my earlier attempt at a reconstructed biography)
41. Value Voters Summit 2009
42. North Alabama Bible Conference 2005 ("Church House or Jail House" was title of message)
43. Messages in San Diego, May 1-2, 2010
44. Rick and Bubba Show (several parts)
45. GGBTS 2010 Missions Conference (February 12-14, 2010)
46. The Master's Pulpit (April 2, 2003)
47. Olive Baptist (September 13, 2009)
48. Northwest Baptist Conference (2007 and 2009)
49. Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma - Annual Meeting 2009
50. International Missions Conference 2008 - Forest Baptist Church, November 2, 2008
51. Harold Hendrick Interview - September 3, 2009
52. First Baptist Church, Pearl City, Hawaii - June 1, 2007
53. First Baptist Church, Mount Vernon, Georgia - March 2, 2014
54. West Cabarrus Church - July 18, 2010
55. U.S. Marine Corps, New River, NC - September 15, 2005
56. Shades Mountain Missions Conference 2010 - February 21, 2010
57. Janet Parshall's "Talking it Over" - January 10, 2009
58. ErgunCaner.com and National Conference on Christian Apologetics - October 2013
59. Ohio Free Will Baptists - Men's Retreat Early 2007
60. Southcrest Baptist Church - April 13, 2013
61. SBTS Address to Students - November 13, 2003

Some additional sources
1. Middle Name Usage Sources
2. Translation Claims Sources
3. Various News Sources Reports of Caners' testimony from 2001 and shortly thereafter (and compare this)
4. Caner's Class Discussions with people of other religions
5. A Page of Ergun Caner Materials

E. Caner's Swedish Grandmother:

There are a number of other interesting issues that you may enjoy reading about, of which Caner's grandmother is one.  Role of Grandmother in Conversion (see also the discussion with Richard Land (link) regarding his grandmother teaching him to shave, in his father's absence) (see the discussion from Holier than Thou regarding Caner's grandmother raising him and the discussion at this link) (see the discussion of Caner's pre-2001 testimony).

F. Responses to Objections

Not everyone agrees that Caner sometimes embellished his autobiography and some people raise objections to criticisms leveled at him.

1. What about Caner's Alleged Apology? (links to discussion: part 1- part 2)
2. What about the testimony of Jamal Jivanjee? (see discussion here and here)
3. Geisler debate issues

a. "Response to Norman Geisler on Ergun Caner"
b. "Dr. Norman Geisler Digs Himself a Deeper Hole"
c. "Geisler Digs Yet Deeper"
d. "Responding to Norman Geisler's Defense of Caner - Part 1"
e. "Responding to Norman Geisler's Defense of Caner - Part 2"
f. "Wrapping Up Geisler's Defense of Caner"
g. "Dr. White's Responses to Dr. Geisler"
h. "Some Things Dr. Geisler Overlooked"
i. "Rebutting Norman Geisler"
j. "Is Lying a Moral Issue?"
k. "Norman Geisler on Lying as a Moral/Ethical Issue"

G. Items Not Included

I have omitted a lot of possible material.  The things I have not discussed above include (among other things):

Mispronunciation of words, like Sawm (but see discussion here, for example) and curious claims like praying in the locker room (see the discussion here, for example)  I also did not include the impression of Caner that Fallwell received and expressed (link to discussion).  I did not get into the issue of how many books exactly Caner has published (some discussion on that here) or his qualifications (see discussion here) or credentials (link) or the issue of calling his doctorate from the University of South Africa a PhD (see example here).  I didn't discuss Tom Chantry's multipart series comparing Ergun Caner to Stephen Ambrose (link).  I didn't discuss Caner's tasering incident, which he mentioned at GGBTS (link). Nor did I get into the issues of his alleged class rank in high school (link). I didn't mention his issues with the Latin language (see the example at this link).

I have not discussed the question of the age of his grandma at her baptism: I believe I've heard 92 (at FBC Mount Vernon and at the National Conference on Christian Apologetics), 93 (at Shades Mountain Independent Church and implicitly at Southcrest Baptist Church), 95 (at FBC Pearl City), and 99.

I have not discussed his profane language as evidence in the videos of his presentations to the Marine Corps (link).

I have not listed the times where Dr. Caner has said that he did not see his dad for "17 years" (one example was at FBC Mount Vernon (link)).

I have not included material regarding his brother Emir, except where they were both speaking or writing together such as at Olive Baptist (link), where Emir acknowledged that "Swedish, that's our native tongue."

I had trouble describing this now-removed video and consequently omitted it from the listings above (link to materials).

I hope that God will use this post for his glory and that it will encourage Dr. Caner to confess, repent, and be restored.

-TurretinFan

Updates:

3/20/14 - Added Olive Baptist messages
3/23/14 - Added NW Baptist Conference messages
3/24/14 - Added Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma message
3/25/14 - Added International Missions Conference message
3/28/14 - Added Harold Hendrick Interview
3/30/14 - Added FBC Pearl City message
3/31/14 - Added FBC Mount Vernon message
4/1/14 - Added West Cabarrus Church message
4/23/14 - Added Marine Corps Videos
4/24/14 - Added Shades Mountain Missions Conference 2010 message
4/25/14 - Added Janet Parshall Interview
4/26/14 - Added National Conference on Christian Apologetics 2013/ErgunCaner.com
4/30/14 - Added Ohio Free Will Baptists - Men's Retreat Early 2007 (further updated 5/10/14)
5/3/14 - Added Southcrest Baptist Church message
5/15/14 - Added SBTS address to students

Ergun Caner in The Master's Pulpit - Spring 2003

Ergun Caner in The Master's Pulpit - Spring 2003 (apparently April 2, 2003)

All times approximate:

(0:15) "Many of the misconceptions that we have, who are foreigners, about America, is we thought all of America was going to be like California. I will explain a little more as we go. My full name is Ergun Michael Mehmet Giovanni Caner. "Canner" is an Americanization of Caner. I was born in Stockholm, Sweden. I am Turkish, obviously. You can tell by looking at me, I'm not Swedish. I am fully Turkish. Twenty-one generations of Muslims in my family. My father is Acar Mehmet Caner. I only tell you that because in my culture, that is how you introduce yourself. My father was a muezzin in the mosque, that is the one who does the call to prayer - the one who is an ulema, and teaches as well."

a) It would be interesting to see Dr. Caner's birth certificate with such a name on it. The only official documents we've seen have "Ergun Michael Caner," but perhaps there is some more official record out there.
b) It's hard to see how Caner, with a Swedish mother, could be "fully Turkish."
c) Ulema is plural - it means "scholars." You can't be "a scholars."
d) In what culture do you introduce yourself by providing your full name and that of your father?

(1:10) "Everything, I'd ever thought about your country and your culture, I thought I understood, solely through television. Everything that we understood about your culture, we understood through television, and of course that led to misconceptions. I'm sure you have misconceptions about my people. Some of them are true, some of them are simply caricatures. Some of them are true. My first job was in fact, in a convenience store, which - alright. I am Apu."

a) He was apparently 2 or 3 years old when he came to America. How much conception, much less misconception, could he have had?
b) Recall that in a previous clip, Caner said: "My first job was not a convenience store."

(1:45) "But everything I knew about your country, I learned through television. So the first thing I watched - they would translate it into our language, into Turkish or into Arabic - and we would watch it, and this is how we saw America. The first thing we saw, we got ubiquitously, was Andy Griffith. Andy of Mayberry. So, I thought all of America was like Mayberry. I came to America through Brooklyn, NY. Yeah, you can see this."

a) Notice how Caner makes it sound like he speaks Turkish and/or Arabic.
b) And again, how much does a toddler really grasp from Andy Griffith?

(3:10) "The third thing is a bit of an embarrassing admission, especially for one who is supposed to be a professor and I've been now a professor for going on five years. But we used to addictively watch American professional wrestling, and nobody told me it was fake. You understand, so I would watch - I thought Americans were the toughest people on the planet. Because you'd get hit in the head with shoes and chairs and such and then you'd get back up - you know - and talk about meeting you at the Omni - you know, and things of this nature. So, I was addicted to this."

I wouldn't doubt he was addicted to wrestling TV, but presumably this developed some time after his toddler years.

(3:40) "I come to America, and I see all these misconceptions are gone. One of the things my father said -- I am the oldest of three sons, and we came here when we were entering - I was already in high school, but my brothers were entering into high school...

As mentioned above, from what we can tell, it seems Caner actually came as a toddler, not a teenager.

(5:05) "I knew nothing about America - I learned English very very very rudimentarily, and so I had to become an American, and I became an American citizen...

I guess this may be technically true, if he was a toddler. But considering his "Turkish" and "Arabic" claims earlier, what kind of impression does it convey?

(7:15) "You can obviously tell that my wife does not call me Ergun Michael Mehmet Giovanni Caner - she calls me 'Butch.'"

As did a lot of people, apparently, before 9/11.

(8:20) "Inevitably, we run into Muslims who will debate us. They will even come to our churches. The have rushed stages in Sacramento at Arcade Baptist Church. They have, in Springdale, Arkansas, come forward at the invitation to argue. In Atlanta, Georgia, they have protested us."

It would be great if any of these supposed events could be corroborated. If you witnessed any of these things, please let me know.

(32:40) "I came to this country to be a missionary of Islam to you."

Hard to see how to justify that kind of claim, if he came here as a toddler.

(32:50) "My father was an architect, and so we built mosques. And he worked on the mosque in Brooklyn, and then he worked on the Mosque in Columbus, Ohio, and then Toledo, Ohio. He did this his entire life."

The web of different stories regarding the Toledo mosque is particularly complex. (see this previous entry, for example)

(33:00) "We were so devout - we were there - I was the equivalent of a P.K. so to speak. I was in the mosque, every time the doors opened - every time. We read the Koran, kissed it, placed it to our foreheads, put it on the highest shelf. We read the Hadith, Al-Bukhari's hadith on the laws and jurisprudence of Allah.

(33:40) "Surah 4:101 Know that the infidels are open enemies unto you - that's you - Surah 5:32 Take no friends from among the Jews or the Christians. Surah 9:29 Sieze them and slay them, where you will find them. So, I came to this country, to try to get you. We lived and died by the five pillars of Islam: Abinadab, Salat, Zakat, Swan, Haj."

a) Caner does surely make it sounds like he came to America to kill Christians.  But he was two or so when he came, and there is no evidence that his father was a radical Islamist.

b) The first pillar is Shahada, not Abinadab - Abinadab is not even the name of one of the pillars. It's frankly a little bit of a mystery why Caner uses that term for it.

(35:40) "It was through one high school who wouldn't shut up. One high school kid - One kid who wouldn't leave me alone. I dressed differently. I spoke differently. I ate differently. I lived by halal and haram.  I wore my keffiyah - my robes. I had nothing to do with him, he had nothing to do with me, why wouldn't he leave me alone?"

Note the repeated claim to dress differently.  Also, this bit about speaking differently - why? He grew up in Ohio.  Why would he have an accent?

(36:50) "I walked into the Stelzer Road Missionary Baptist Church in Columbus, Ohio in full garb with my Koran."

More of the dressing differently claim.

(38:50) "Pastor Clarence had his eyes closed and he was preaching. And he opened his eyes and there stands this boy in front of him, 17 years old, in full gear."

Yet again - more of dressing differently.  Also, this age does not fit his November 4, 1982, alleged conversion date.

(40:05) "In the years that followed, both my brothers got saved."

I hope that they were saved, and I should note that in some cases the story is "the following year," as opposed to "years that followed," but I suppose that is of little significance.

-TurretinFan

Caner's Father - An Architect who "Came to Build Mosques"?

In describing his father, Ergun Caner has repeatedly referred to him as an "architect" and claimed he came to America to "build mosques."  I doubt this account for a number of reasons.

First, Acar Caner's death certificate lists his occupation as "engineer." Unfortunately, this certificate has not been posted on-line.

Second, the Turkish article we previously reported (here) stated: "His father's family had its roots in Istanbul. His father was an engineer and a religious man who was also attached to his secular values. Acar Caner studied engineering in Sweden and then moved to the capital of Ohio, Columbus, in 1969, with his Swedish wife who had converted to Islam."

Third, although the building that is now the "Islamic Foundation" on Broad St. in Columbus, Ohio was renovated in the 1980's, the architect listed was not Acar Caner.

Of course, lots of things are possible.  Still, if Acar Caner was actually an architect, there surely must be some evidence of it out there.  There's an aspect of "wait and see" about this, but I would encourage people not to automatically assume that Acar Caner was an architect or that his primary role was building mosques.

-TurretinFan

Ergun Caner at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary

Ergun Caner was the featured guest speaker (see advertisement here) at the GGBTS 2010 Missions Conference (link to page with links to audio), which was held February 12-14, 2014.  Caner evidently delivered at least three addresses:

Friday evening:

Around 6:20, Caner claims that his father-in-law is from "Possum Kill, NC."

We can't find any place by that name.

Around 15:40, Caner said, "When I got saved, it was later in life.  And then going into college - I got saved in my teens - but then going into college, I have switched from an urban church to a country church - and it caught me off guard."

It is nice to see that Caner quickly corrected his "later in life" to "teens."

Around 19:50, Caner said, "There was never any singing in the mosque.  Not in Sunni mosques, not in Shia mosques. It is forbidden. There is no singing in the mosque."

No, it is not forbidden to sing in mosques. (See discussion here.)

Around 33:40, Caner said, "I've been tasered live on stage as a sermon point. And it worked, nobody forgot it. That was four years ago, nobody's ever forgot it. I haven't forgot it either, it hurt like crazy."

Around 43:55, Caner said, "People always hit you up, 'what is it that reached a Muslim?' In my case, grace and the atonement, but it was worship. I had never heard singing - not in the mosque - I didn't know why you were so happy."

Keep in mind that Caner was in A Capella his sophomore, junior, and senior years and in Freshman choir in high school (see the discussion here).

Around 51:50, Caner said, "Jerry Tackett in my life for four years, freshman, sophomore, junior, going into my senior year. Every time I told him, 'no,' he kept coming back. I dressed differently, spoke differently, and worshiped a different god."

Caner's claim that it was his senior year is inconsistent with some of his other claims, like his claim that it was 1982.

Around 52:15, Caner said, "When I got saved I lost my family, I lost my loved ones, I became murtad, an object of scorn, and one anonymous church loved me."

Caner apparently was disowned by his non-custodial father, but he apparently continued to have a close relationship with his mother and grandmother.

Around 53:00, Caner said, "I couldn't understand her, because she was from Japan.  And her English was worse than my English."

This may be true, but considering that Caner grew up in Ohio, it is a strange comment.

Around 53:40, Caner said, "A year after my salvation, while I'm in college, both my brothers get saved. My father has other wives, other children, but from our mom, three boys - all three born again ..."

Caner's father did not, as far as we can tell, have other wives.

Around 55:10, Caner said, "I have brothers and sisters that I'll never see again, I've cousins and uncles and nephews and such that hate me.  But my nuclear family is changed, because of one boy."

Caner does not, as far as we can tell, have other brothers than Emir and Erdem.

Saturday morning:

Around 9:50, Caner said, "I learned English, to all my immigrant friends, you can learn English simply by studying their dialects. And even in the south, they have variant dialects."

Caner came when he was about 2 years old.  I doubt he learned English by studying dialects.

Around 10:15 Caner said, "My full name is Ergun Mehmet Caner."

No, his full name is Ergun Michael Caner.

Around 12:05 Caner said, "I have lived in Korea. No one speaks Korean as quickly a Southerner speaks English."

I'm sure Caner has visited Korea - but that's not quite the same thing as living there.

Around 22:45 Caner said, "I spend a large portion of my time in front of hostile crowds."

Really?  Where is the evidence of this.

Around 23:00 Caner said, "I got saved in the '80's ..."

I wish we could verify this - partly in terms of verifying that he really professed faith in 1982 as he has claimed - and partly in terms of seeing repentance for his autobiographical embellishments.

Around 1:05:00 Caner described his interview at Liberty University.  He claimed he was asked about liquor and tattoos.  He claims that he told them that he had 12 tattoos.  More particularly, Caner said (around 1:06:00): "All of mine are anabaptist and church history and - I have a mark from when I was a Muslim, and so, when I got saved, I wanted something that - I got Arabic that says 'Jesus is Lord,' I've got Athanasius' creed, Contra Mundum across my back-  If you ever see me get captured, I don't want to be in an orange jumpsuit before they cut off my head, I want to be sleeveless, so that the last thing they see is 'Jesus Christ alone is Lord' in Arabic on my arm."

a) Did Caner really get tattooed before his professed conversion to Christianity?  He would have been under 18 at the time.

b) Also, most Muslims think that permanent tattoos are forbidden (link).

c) The pictures at right show all the tattoos (or lack thereof) that I've seen (I'm linking to his twitter pics, so the pictures should disappear, if he pulls the pictures from his twitter site).

Around 1:10:20, Caner said: "Then, I was told I couldn't get a masters, because I was a straight C student, until one professor - one - one guy grabbed me by the nape of the neck and said 'Stop coasting.'

Caner was a "Presidential Scholar" at Cumberland (as we reported here).

Saturday evening:

Around 10:00 "In 1978 when my people moved here - when we moved here - Ayatollah Khomeini had said, 'We will not stop, until America is an Islamic nation.'

Around 10:20 "When we started - in '78 - when my father set up the Islamic Foundation in Columbus, Ohio, there was 1000 Islamic houses of worship."

From what we know, Caner came in 1969, not 1978.

Around 46:20, Caner said: "So we are repeating, in Islam, six verses of the Koran - the first chapter - the first Surah of the Koran.  Over and over."

Actually, the first Surah has seven verses. (see here)

Around 47:05, "This Islamic form of hyper-calvinism.  You fall down, you break your leg, you are supposed to say what? 'Inshallah' - Allah willed it. He broke my leg. It was supposed to happen.  It's fatalism - it's absolute fatalism."

Caner is wrong - the Muslim exclamation would be alhamdulillah or perhaps allahu akhbar - "inshallah" is forward-looking.

Around 50:50, Caner said: "Are you saying that Islam is inspired by the devil? That's exactly what I'm saying, so you can quote me."

I figure we should go ahead and quote him.  I would think that the devil would know the Trinity better than the view that is reflected in the Koran.

Around 52:20, Caner said: "In the 61st chapter of the Koran, Surah 61, Mohammed has Jesus saying I must go so that I will send a Paraklĕtos - not klātos - Paraklĕtos and in Arabic it is shortened to Ahmed which is the nickname or the shortened version of Mohammed ."

Caner has conflated a few things here.  The Koran says that Jesus claimed he would send a messenger or an apostle and that the person would have the name Ahmed (short for Mohammad).  Certain Muslims claim that when John 16:7 reports that Jesus said he will send a Comforter (παράκλητος - parakletos), that this is a textual error and the text should read "περικλυτος" (periklutos), which allegedly would mean "praised one," which is the meaning of Ahmed/Mohammad.   

Around 53:05, Caner said: "Ibrahim, goes to the top of Mt. Moriah to sacrifice his son. Lays his son on an altar - so far so good - Genesis 22, right? lays his son on the altar, raises up the knife, because Allah has told him to kill his son. Plunges it down, and at the last minute, Allah prepares an animal in the thicket and saves the life of Ishmael. You get it? 2200 years after Moses writes it - 2700 years after it actually happened - Mohammad changed the story. He changed the characters."

As discussed elsewhere, it appears that the replacement of Isaac with Ishmael in the story is a post-Mohammad development in Islamic history (see the detailed discussion here).

Around 1:07:50, Caner said: "I will never move. If I ever leave Liberty, you know where I'm going? State school.  Put me on the floor at a community college - where I'm with every leftist, loser, liberal, lesbian, everything, surrounded by heathens - what better place to be!"

Of course, Caner didn't know the future, but since he's left Liberty - he has apparently only worked at Christian colleges.

-TurretinFan

Ashburn Baptist Church (Chicago, Illinois) Sermons

Ergun Caner apparently gave a number of speeches/sermons at Ashburn Baptist Church in Chicago, Illinois, from 2003-2005.

• "Dr. Ergun Caner" by Ergun Caner March 3, 2003 (link to mp3) Title: "When the Jailhouse turns into the Churchhouse"

He begins with autobiographical material:

"My full name is Ergun Michael Mehmet Giovani Caner, born in Stockholm, Sweden, where my parents were going to school.  ... Raised in Turkey, and in Cairo, Egypt, and in Beirut, and then I came here .. and I came here when I was 12."

He came at about 3 years old, having been born in Sweden.  He was raised in Ohio.  His name is Ergun Michael Caner.

Caner claims he learned about America, thinking it was all like Mayberry from Andy Griffith.  As mentioned above, he was raised in the U.S.

Around 25 minutes in he continues with autobiographical material:

"I was raised for the first 17 years of my life as a Sunni Muslim. Acar Mehmet Caner, my father, was a muezzin, he was a mulima. A muezzin is the one who does the call to prayer in the minaret, the mulima is the scholar of the hadith. I was raised in the mosque.  And raised and brought here to America to be a missionary to you.  My father was an architect by trade.  He built and renovated mosques. In Brooklyn, New York, in Toledo, Ohio, and eventually in Columbus, Ohio he built and renovated mosques. I was the equivalent of a PK in Islam."

The Islamic Foundation on Broad St., where Acar Caner apparently went, did not have a minaret.  There is no evidence that he was a muezzin or an alim (ulima is a plural noun, and mulima is bad). There is no evidence (that we can find) that Caner's father was actually an architect by trade or that ever built a mosque.

"Even in high school, I would take my prayer rug out of my locker and put it in the bathroom, and begin [Islamic prayers]."

A bathroom is one of the last places a devout Muslim would pick for prayers.

"I came here to be a Muslim missionary to you."

He came as a toddler.

"You have heard of the five pillars of Islam, Abinadab, the Kalima, Salat, Zakat, Swan, Haj, ... we will talk about jihad being the 6th pillar of Islam."

Abinadab is not a pillar of Islam.

"I wore my keffiyah, my gear ..."

Most of Caner's childhood photos show him and his father wearing normal western clothes.

He talks about his first sermon being very short but he claims that both his brothers came forward.

Other times Caner has said that his brothers were saved while he was away in college.

• "20 Things You Must Know to Witness to a Muslim" by Ergun Caner March 3, 2003 (link to mp3)

"We have had many debates over the past 10 years on university campuses and such."

We can't find evidence of these debates.

"I can no longer travel to the countries. I mean I can't travel to my home country, to Turkey. I cannot go to Lebanon or to Syria or to UAE or Qatar, and neither can my brother."  This is allegedly the result of his publishing against Islam.

I doubt Caner could substantiate these claims, but it is hard to prove that they are not true.  Nevertheless, UAE and Turkey are relatively tolerant of non-Muslims, so it seems surprising that they would care he wrote a book on Islam.

"I have debated in 13 colleges and universities. I have never once found one Muslim ulima, scholar, who would ever say that Allah and Jehovah are the same god."

As noted above, we cannot find evidence of these debates.

Caner claims that Mohammed's first vision was on his 40th birthday.

Muslims, however, say that Mohammed's first vision was during the month of Ramadan (9th month of the calendar), whereas Mohammed's birthday is int he month of Rabi-al-Awwal (3rd month of the calendar)

Around 18:50: "In a debate at the University of North Texas, there were thousands of people there, and there was two Christians and two Muslims. I was the Christian who formerly was a Muslim. I was offensive to the Muslims. And in the middle of this, what was most interesting was that most of the questions that were hostile were not coming from Muslims, they were coming from the media. WFAA in Dallas, Texas the television station - the guy just hammered me, just boom boom, hit me with questions over and over."

We can't find any evidence of this debate.  The only references we could find to Caner on WFAA's website were to Caner getting caught.  One example is shown here:


Around 20:50: "So, in the middle of the debate, after getting hit five or six times with questions, I step back from my podium and I say, 'Abi,' speaking to the imam, I said, 'Abi, may I ask you a question.'"

We cannot locate any imam named "Abi" whom Caner ever debated.

Around 25:50:  "I was a jihadeen. That was my youth group. Do you hear the word? Jihad. Jihadeen is a little boy who trains in the protocols of jihad. If I would have reached the age of 18 as a jihadeen, and I would have made the pilgrimage to Mecca, doing haj, I would have become a muj- put them together mujihadeen."

There is no evidence to confirm that Caner was trained as a jihadist.

Around 30:50: "By the way, let me cite to you what the Hadith is.  This is interesting.  The Koran is supposedly the words of Allah. But the Hadith is different. The Hadith is not just one book, it's actually a large encyclopedia - nine volumes. You can buy one.  It's about $100 to buy the full set. It is not the words of Allah, but it is the words and sayings and examples and protocols and judicial laws of Mohammed."  

That's not a very accurate picture of the Hadith.  There are nine volumes in the English translation of one of the hadith collections (Sahih al-Bukhari).  But there are a number of other hadith collections besides that one.  That's why, when one cites the hadith, one should specify the collection (see the discussion here).

Around 32:50: "I wanted to become an American. I learned your language.  Do know how difficult your language is? Do you have any clue? And I was in high school when I did it!"

Caner came to America as a toddler, not as a high school student.

Around 38:50: "My father said, 'When you come to America, marry an American woman. More specifically, marry a blonde.'"

One really doubts that Caner's dad had such a discussion with a 3 year old, or that Caner would have remembered it.

Around 42:30: "On open line radio with Wayne Shepherd I was debating a Muslim woman scholar and this was the Moody show, the Wayne Shepherd thing, and he said, 'Well, she's on the line, and she wants to disagree with what you have to say,' and she called in and she said, 'You do not understand, you have quoted this verse three times, and you do not understand.  In the Arabic, that means to tap her lightly.' I have two answers: number one, I do understand the Arabic, I do read the Arabic, and no it does not mean to tap her lightly. And secondly, are you insane?"

As far as we can tell, Caner may be able to pronounce the Arabic, but he does not know the language.  I even wonder if this supposed radio discussion ever took place.

Around 43:50: "My mother found out late in her marriage that my father was married to more than one woman."

Caner's mom apparently married his dad while at university. They were divorced nine years later and we cannot find evidence of Caner's mom alleging polygamy as the ground of divorce.  Also, compare this statement to what we see below in some of the other messages at this same church. Caner's father apparently remarried after the divorce, but we cannot find evidence of any other wives.

Around 50:00: "Strict Muslims do not allow their pictures to be taken, because they consider it to be idolatry."

 Sounds like Caner may be confusing Muslims and Amish.

Around 58:10 "That's what those video tapes are for. Have you seen those video tapes of them reading before they go and bomb? This is what they are reading: [Some kind of gibberish that is supposed to be Arabic] I declare who I will send."

It's sad that Caner makes people think he speaks Arabic.

Around 1:10:50 "I think America will survive if, and only if, it's the country I thought I was coming to. Everywhere I lived, I was a majority, Muslims were in the majority. I come to America, I was in the minority."

The evidence we have is that Caner lived in Sweden and then the US, neither of which is a majority Muslim country.

• June 3 "Dr. Ergun Caner and the Teen Choir and Orchestra from the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Florida" by Ergun Caner June 3, 2005 (link to mp3)

Around 1:45: "I've been fat my entire life."

The evidence we have suggests he was not fat until after high school, at the earliest.

Around 2:20: "Braxton is after my father-in-law, Paige is after Dr. Patterson, who is my mentor."

I wonder what Patterson thinks of Caner's autobiographical embellishments?

Around 3:30: "I make my living getting yelled at. I spend my time, on purpose, in front of secular audiences. I go into state colleges, Ohio State University, Portland State most recently, UCLA, I go into places where I am not surrounded by sweet, kind gracious kids like I just heard sing and gave testimony. I figured if Jesus was a friend to sinners, and we're here to help those who are sick with sin, I don't want to hang out in the rehab center, I want to hang out where the lepers are. And there are a ton of lepers on our state university campuses. I debate. I go in and a Muslim, or a Bahai, or a Buddhist, or a Hindi, and I get in front of a bunch of people and debate."

 We cannot find evidence of these supposed debates.

Around 9:00, Caner claims that his father-in-law was from Possum Kill, NC.

There is no "Possum Kill" in North Carolina, according to google maps.

Around 11:50, Caner claims to have watched Chicago Cubs baseball abroad before coming to America. Caner then claims to have watched American football.  He also claims to have watched the Dukes of Hazard and to have wanted to marry Daisy.  He further claims to have watched Andy Griffith.

It's literally impossible he watched the Dukes of Hazzard as he claims (see discussion here).  And, of course, keep in mind he was a toddler when he came to America.

Around 12:50: "But my favorite show came out of Georgia.  Because Atlanta, GA, small station television station there was shipping its tapes to Europe.  And Turkey being half European and half Persian, we would receive these tapes, and it didn't need to be translated. And every two weeks we got to watch Georgia Championship Wrastlin' - and I thought it was real, because nobody told me it was fake."

There is no evidence that Caner lived in Turkey and watched Pro Wrestling on Turkish TV via internationally shipped tapes.

Around 13:50: "All the Turks you see on television are what? We are either devout, which I was, wearing the robes ..." 

As mentioned above, from the photos we have, Caner dressed like a typical Western person.

Around 14:30 "I did, however, work at a convenience store. My first job was at a place called 7-11. The only place that would hire me. I was Apu."

 Elsewhere, he has claimed he didn't work at a convenience store. (see here, for example)

Around 14:50: "I came to this country as a 13 year old boy, and I came here with a father as the oldest of three sons of my father, and my father said, 'Marry an American.'"

He came as a 3 year old boy, and his youngest brother was born in Ohio.

Around 21:40 "Because in debates that I've had in philosophy classes, in theology classes, in divinity schools, among a bunch of heathens, among coffee houses, I only go to Christian coffee houses when I want to get coffee. I go to secular coffee houses when I want to have a good evangelical encounter."

Where are these debates?

Around 30:00 "I came over during the Iranian crisis. Ayatollah Khomeini had taken control. The shah had of Iran had been kicked out. And Ayatollah Khomeini said this: 'We will not stop, until America is an Islamic nation.' And so in 1978, my father, my mother, my two brothers, my father's other wives, and my half-brothers and sisters came to this country."

Remember above where supposedly his mom only late in their marriage found out about the supposed "more than one woman"?  Also, while Caner does have two half-sisters, we cannot find any evidence of any half-brothers. Caner came to America in 1969, long before the Iranian crisis, and the Ayatollah was of a completely different sect of Islam (Shia), which is at odds with the Sunni sect that Caner was allegedly part of. Furthermore, Caner's half-sisters were born after his father and mother divorced.   Caner's youngest brother was born in the USA.

Caner continued: "How is that Muslims can come to this country with other wives? Well, it's called the Abraham lie. This is my sister. It explains our last names being the same. And so he would say, 'these are my sisters.' We settled in Brooklyn, NY, and moved to Columbus, OH, for the express purpose of what? My father was an architect and he built mosques. We would build mosques.  And my father in the mosque on Fridays, would climb to the top of the minaret and there at the top of the minaret - that's a long tower - he would begin, 'Alahu akhbar, Alahu akhbar, Alahu akhbar, Alahu akhbar' the call to prayer."

As mentioned above, there was and is no minaret at the Islamic Foundation on Broad St. where Caner's father went.  There is no confirming evidence that his dad built any mosques.  Likewise, there is no evidence that Caner's father was a polygamist.

At 31:30, Caner said: "We moved from Brooklyn, NY, to Toledo, OH, where we saw the big mosque there, off of I-75. We moved south to Columbus." If they lived in Brooklyn or Toledo, it could not have been long.  Emir Caner was born near Columbus.

At 32:45, Caner said: "We were devout Muslims. Now devout - that's a word that's thrown around a lot today, isn't it. Let's just say we were following the dietary restrictions, praying five times a day, we wore the hijab, my mother wore the chador, we wore the keffiyah, and I took the Koran very seriously."

Other places, we learn that Caner's mother was not a devout Muslim by the time Caner professed faith. 

Around 34:00, Caner said: "You fall down and break your leg, you say, 'inshallah,' it's how you live." 

Muslims would instead say Al-Hamdolilah or Alahu Akhbar.  Inshallah is a forward-looking statement.

Around 36:05, Caner said: "It's why there's no shortage of young men, going to be trained in a Madras, like I was - and now, young women. It is not act of devotion, it is an act of desperation.  We believe that by dying, we get hope."

It's "madrasa" not "madras" and there is no evidence we can find that Caner went to anything more than the Muslim equivalent of Sunday school.

Around 38:40, Caner said: "For three years: Freshman, Sophomore, Junior years, I said 'no.' Three years. He didn't stop. In the summer of the year between my junior and my senior year, I finally got sick of it. 'Would you quit!' 'Dude, we got a lock-in.' You all know what a lock-in is? Do you guys know what a lock in is? They are evil. A lock-in is the Protestant equivalent to Purgatory. It is time served. Because you are, 3 a.m. in the morning, wondering who did you offend to get stuck doing this. You have been covered in shaving cream by some obnoxious kid, you are filled with horribly cheap check cola, you have eaten things that don't even taste like oreos, and you're tired and you want to show a carmen video, hoping they all go to sleep! And then you find out, 'umm, Tommy's missing, and so's Sally,' 'Get the flashlights!' So you're searching through the church, lookin' in Sunday school classrooms, and you find them under a stairwell somewhere. 'What are you doing!?!' 'Uh, dude, uh, she needed somebody to pray with.' 'Yeah, well you're praying tongues. How about coming out of there if you would, please. Punk! She is not a hollah-back girl.'  

In other places, he has claimed his conversion experience was in November 1982.  In any event, the summer between junior and senior years would be 1983.

Caner continued: "I said 'no,' I said 'no,' I said 'no,' I said 'no,' a hundred times I said, 'no.' He wouldn't quit. I have no idea to this day why he made me his topic. Finally, I was going to show him. So I walked into the Stelzer Road Baptist Church in Columbus, Ohio, mad. Have you ever walked into church mad? A lot of people were made that day. I found out since, a lot of people come to church mad. But I was going to show him, and I came in full gear, and I came in, Koran in my hand, about as thick as a Jack Hyle study Bible, that thick, and I carried it big, and I walked to the front, and that little, store-front church loved me to the cross. Didn't make fun of me, didn't make fun of my name, didn't call me names, didn't make fun of my accent, didn't call me a towel-head or a camel-jockey and they didn't call me a sandn*gger.  The meaner I was, the nicer they were."

What accent?  Caner was raised in Ohio.

Around 42:25, Caner said: "All I'd ever heard was that Baptists were snake handlers, and I was looking around for a box. I don't like snakes, neither do camels."

What do camels have to do with it? Caner is not from the desert.

Around 42: 40, Caner said: "And the minute the service was over, Jerry Tacket took me to Clarence Miller and he - Clarence Miller was the pastor of the church - he said, 'Clarence, here he is!' like you've gotta point out the boy wearing the dress."

It seems unlikely Caner wore a dress to the church, since photos of him from that time period show him wearing normal western clothes.

Around 45:00, Caner said: "One of the number one arguments I get in debate, is when a Muslims will say, 'What does his death have to do with my blood.'"

Where are any of these debates?

• June 4 "Dr. Ergun Caner and the Teen Choir and Orchestra from the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Florida" by Ergun Caner June 4, 2005 (link to mp3)

Around 11:20, Caner said: "I spend the vast majority of my time in our culture." 

What does that mean?

Around 30:00, Caner said: "When I was in baptist student union in college, we went to a retreat - I had only been saved about one year. And we went to a retreat, and I was excited about being discipled. I had been saved one year, I'm a minister of the gospel, I barely know the Bible, I wanna be taught, I wanna be fed. I want somebody to step on my toes."

Notice this implicit claim that he was born again his senior year of high school.

Around 43:30, Caner said: "If I'm doing a debate, and there's an audience, someone will raise a well-intentioned hand and say, 'Dr. Caner, ...'"

 Where are any of these debates?

• June 5 A.M. "Dr. Ergun Caner and the Teen Choir and Orchestra from the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Florida" by Ergun Caner June 5, 2005 (link to mp3)

Around 21:00 "Man, I fear no man, but I feared my grandma. My mormor was 5' tall at her tallest, she shrunk the older she got. Like a jumbo shrimp - just [sound effect]. If you look at my right earlobe, it's longer than my left one - 'cause she dragged me all over creation by my ear. Never learned English. Came to America with us, never learned English. But never missed her soap opera. Always watched The Edge of Night. I guess she just make up stories with it. Man, I fear no man, but I feared my grandmother. And when my grandmother got saved, she didn't speak the language, she was a testimony to all the senior citizens, 'cause she got saved at 99 years old."

Mormor is a Swedish term for grandmother.  That's appropriate, because this grandmother was Swedish.  Isn't it interesting how Caner suggests that his grandmother spoke another language, rather than English, but he never mentions here that the language was Swedish?

Around 23:25 "I lost my father at my salvation, because I was disowned. That wasn't hard. In my country, you are killed for becoming a Christian. So I had no family."

In what country? Turkey didn't have sharia law, nor did Sweden, and obviously neither does the USA.  He had his mother and grandmother even after he lost his father, as far as we can tell.

Around 24:15 "One tiny little church that doesn't even exist any more, I stand here because they invested in me."

The Stelzer Road Baptist church evidently does still exist.

Around 30:00 "I was a faithful and devout Muslim my entire life, into my teenage years."

You have to chuckle about the "my entire life," coupled with "into my teenage years."  And we certainly can question how devout he was, although it is difficult to definitively prove.

Around 30:10 "We watched in our madras, our training center, we watched Christian television to critique it."

As noted above, it's "madrasa" not "madras."  Granted that Christian TV is pretty bad, but surely he would not get the impression that "you hated me" from that TV.  One really doubts, however, that Caner was in a "training center" that encouraged watching Christian TV.

Around 30:35 "It took three years for me to enter the church. A year later both my brothers got saved after I was saved. Took them four. My mother didn't get saved until 1991, it took her nine. My grandmother didn't get saved until 1995, it took her 13 years. I have half-brothers and half-sisters in Chicago, in New York, and in Turkey, who live here, who are still lost as geese. Still in the slavery of Islam. But I will not give up. How dare I give up! My father died in '99.  His wives are still alive. How dare I give up! My half-sisters are still alive. How dare I give up! My half-brothers, my uncles, my aunts, How dare I give up! He didn't give up on me. He didn't stop. God didn't stop hunting me down."

Here he says "three years," which suggests his senior year of high school.  Also, as mentioned above, we don't have any evidence of these alleged half-brothers.  Likewise, while Caner's mother and Caner's step-mom may both be alive, Caner's comment seems to refer back to his father's alleged polygamy.

• June 5 P.M. "Dr. Ergun Caner and the Teen Choir and Orchestra from the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Florida" by Ergun Caner June 5, 2005 (link to mp3)

Around 2:05: "I am presently finishing a commentary.  It is 2.3 million words, it's about that thick, it is a commentary on every verse of the Koran from a Christian perspective. It's the first time it's ever been tried. They went after Salman Rushdie when he did one verse in Surah 58 of the Koran. I'm doing all of them."  

We have yet to see Caner produce this alleged commentary.

Around 6:25: "I want to speak to you as somebody who did not pick up a Bible until he was 18 years old."

Interesting how he's supposedly critiquing Christian TV in a madrasa, but yet he never picked up a Bible.  Likewise, "18" seems an unlikely number.  Caner graduated from high school in 1984 and was born in November of 1966.  Thus, Caner would have been already graduated from high school before he turned 18.
Around 10:25: "In the last semester, UCLA, Otterbein, University of South Florida, Mingut(?) College, Winthrop University, one more, Mitney(?) State, I walk into those schools and - I want to set the stage for you, pretend with me if you would, please, that we are not a church, but we are in some sort of a hallway, an auditorium, as you enter in, if it is a debate, you are searched. Behind the scenes, I sit in a room with the imam, who is the pastor of the mosque, or a Hindi priest, or a Buddhist priest or monk, or maybe even a mulima, a Muslim scholar, or an atheist. We sit in the back and we discuss the protocols and rules of this debate. They go as follows: both of us go by making a 10 minute introduction explaining our position. We then answer and rebut the other person's statement and launch into a defense of our position that is allowed to last up to 35 minutes. A final ten minute rebuttal is offered by either one of us, and then the fun starts. We open the floor to questions."

When has Caner ever done this kind of formal debate? Notice that Caner cannot claim that he just means some kind of informal dialog or a chat in a taxicab.  He's referring to a structured debate with timed speeches.

 Around 12:00: "It's often hostile, it's certainly tense, there's often catcalls, they try to shout you down, they have rushed the platform on me.  I have had to have, you know, men line up at the front. Sometimes they scream, sometimes they threaten, sometimes they're just mad, they don't know why they're yelling."

When did any of these things happen?  Where is any record of them?

Around 22:30: "I had to speak, I started crying. There's my boy - my boy - my little half-breed. What?! I speak Turkish to him, Jill speaks redneck to him, we teach each other."

It is hard to believe Caner knows any appreciable amount of Turkish.

Around 49:00, Caner said, "After 12 years of doing these debates, seeing no results, none, I had my first. A Hindu boy, a sophomore in college, waited for afterwards and said, 'I want Jesus as my only God.'"

Which debate was this?  And since when has Caner been debating for twelve years?  Caner was speaking in 2005, so that would be since 1993 or so.

Around 49:15, Caner said, "I will never be the guy who has those great testimonies ..."

 Sadly, Caner had a very dramatic testimony that included a lot of information that doesn't check out.

• "Men's Steak Fry" by Ergun Caner September 3, 2005 (link to mp3) 

Around 7:05: "My father-in-law is from Possum Kill, NC"

As mentioned above, there does not appear to be any such place.

Around 8:10: "I was raised a Sunni Muslim until I was almost in college."

If the November 1982 date is correct for Emir's conversion, and if Ergun was converted the previous year (as in their book), then Caner still had several years of high school to go before college.

Around 9:40: "It just isn't part of my culture. I lived in Istanbul - it's a city."  (Explaining why fishing is not his thing.)

As far as we can tell, Caner never lived for any significant amount of time in Istanbul.

Around 29:25: "And where Hussein was killed in Iraq, Muslims who are Shia will make this pilgrimage and you will see us, cutting ourselves with machetes. Cutting on this flesh. And they say [gibberish] umm - Turkish - [more gibberish] the - the - what is the word I'm looking for - blood guilt - we should have defended you - By our blood, we should have defended you."

Caner wasn't a Shia, so the "we" doesn't seem very appropriate.  And the gibberish does not sound to me like the Turkish words for "blood guilt."

Around 32:25, Caner said: "I lived my entire life assuming that I was going to die for Allah, that my blood would buy my pardon, that my blood would deal with my guilt."

There is nothing we have found to confirm that Caner had an expectations of dying as a martyr.  Also, notice the "entire life" language.

• "21 Similarities between Islam and Mormonism" by Ergun Caner September 5, 2005 (link to mp3) 

Around 13:50, Caner said: "You've heard me say, I said it the first time I ever came here, and now it's 60 debates, I just had two more debates, and in sixty-some-odd debates, I've never met one Muslim, not one who has ever said, not one, who has ever said that the Allah of Koran - the ninety-nine names of terror and glory - that the Allah of the Koran is the same god as Jehovah God of the Bible. Not one!"

Where is the evidence of these debates?

Around 14:35, Caner said: "Sometimes I'll get a Muslim who has bought into the American culture a little bit, and they say, 'When you speak of Allah, you're speaking of God, and when you're speaking of God, you're speaking of the God.'"

 The Koran itself makes the claim that Christians and Muslims worship the same god.  The particular one is the one that is most relevant to the field of apologetics with Muslims.  You would think that Caner would have run into it if he had actually debated many Muslims, or if he knew the Koran from being "devout", and especially if he wrote a 2.3 million word commentary on it:

 Surah 29:46 And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."

Around 14:35, Caner said: "We fall down, we say, inshallah, God willed it." (just after comparing Kismet to Caner's concept of hyper-Calvinism) As mentioned above, Muslims would instead say Al-Hamdolilah or perhaps Alahu Akhbar.  Inshallah is a forward-looking statement.

Around 24:30, Caner said: "August the 21st, I was in San Diego, David Jeremiah's church - at Shadow Mountain, and at Shadow Mountain, one of my best friends, Charles Billing has become their worship guy. Charles for some reason was being stupid, he announced on television, 'Former Muslim coming.' Well if a former Muslim's coming, present Muslims are going to show up too, to yell at me! And so they showed up, and what did I hear? [some kind of hissing sound] Why? Because I met something I had never in my life ever met - ever. It's only been two weeks, I met something I had never met - gay Muslims. I met gay Muslims. And see I offended both of them, because I make fun of both, you know, in my normal speeches. And, uh, I got mocked by gay Muslims. And there is nothing like hearing Arabic with a lisp. I've never in my life dealt with this type of thing."

I could find some evidence that Caner has been a speaker at the Shadow Mountain church, but I couldn't find any recording of this particular speech.  The speeches from the 2009 conference (including Caner's speech, but not just his) are linked on the church's website, but seem to be missing.  That's too bad, as it would have been interesting to see what he said there.  If anyone has either of those recordings, please let me know. I'm not sure how Caner would know the difference between Arabic pronunciations, given that he doesn't speak the language.

Around 26:45, Caner said: "If you speak Swedish, and you read a Swedish Bible, it's not called Genesis or Exodus, it's called Första Moseboken, Andra Moseboken, Tredja Moseboken, because it's the first book of Moses, the second book of Moses, and like that ..."

This does seem to check out.  That's probably because the foreign language spoken in Caner's household was the Swedish of his grandmother, who evidently never learned English.  It's remarkable that he leaves out this reference to his own heritage, though less remarkable given how poorly it fits in with the persona he had crafted in the other remarks we've seen here.

Around 27:15, Caner said: "One of our celebrations, one of our Eids, that's what the word for celebration E-I-D, you spell it in English, is the celebration, the commemoration of a story you and I know. Abraham goes to the top of Mount Moriah. At the top of Mount Moriah, he's going to sacrifice his son. He plunges the knife down and at the last minute, according to the Koran, Allah spares the life of Abraham's son, Ishmael. Y'all know the story from Genesis 22, doncha? It was Isaac! 2200 years after Moses wrote it down, and 2700 years after it actually happened, Mohammed flipped the script."

As we've discussed elsewhere, the Koran doesn't specify Ishmael, and Mohammed himself does not appear to have specified Ishmael - or at least the Hadith is inconsistent with respect to whether he said Ishmael or Isaac.

Around 28:30, Caner said: "That's why the dome of the rock stands on top of the rock! When I take tours - I'm leading a tour to Israel in March, of students, March 12th-20, I'm taking like 300 students to Israel. And I can't take all of them at once, but I take them. And if you've ever gone down, it's a stairwell down to the rock, where there's two Muslims sitting - both are ulimas, scholars - and it's the rock quote-un-quote supposedly where the sacrifice took place. I tell them before we go in, we're going into the mosque, you have to take your shoes off - you have to take your shoes off whenever you walk into an Islamic mosque. And when you take your shoes off, we're going to go downstairs, I am going to tell the story in Arabic, just to make them mad. You crackers won't understand a word I'm saying, but I'm telling the story.  And I will say here is where Abraham sacrificed Isaac, and they lose their mind."

It's hard to see how this could possibly be true, since Caner is not fluent in Arabic.  Also, the plural of alim is ulima - not "ulimas."

Around 37:15, Caner said: "He [a Muslim] comes, he says, 'I want to speak - he's lying - I want equal time,' you say, 'Man, I would love to let you,' 'this Sunday,' I will let you do it the Sunday after I get to preach in the mosque.' You can't.  Not every one of y'all, can speak in a mosque. Because if you stand on the stone, we don't have pulpits, we have the stone, if you stand on the stone and share the testimony of Christ, you have defiled the stone, they have to tear it all down, because you are an unbeliever.  They cannot do wudu on the stone, they can't clean the stone, they have to tear down the mosque."

There is a pulpit-like structure in mosques, called the minbar.  If Caner's dad was really an architect of mosques, one would expect Caner would know this.  Caner may never have spoken in a mosque, but other Christians have.  In fact, my friend Dr. White has debated in mosques, even in the same room where the minbar is located (though not from the minbar).

 Around 39:30, Caner said: "In Islam, Surah 61 of the Koran says, when Jesus said I must go so that a comforter, the word for comforter is messenger, and messenger is Mehmet in Turkish, Mohammed in Arabic."

Caner seems to be conflating several things.  The Koran claims that Jesus promised to send an apostle or messenger.  Moreover, the Koran claims that Mohamed is the messenger.  However, the typical Islamic argument is that John 14 and 15 have the term "comforter" as a textual transmission error.  According to some Muslims, the original word should be "exalted one," which is the meaning of the name "Mohammed." 

Surah 61:6 says: And remember Jesus the son of Mary said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!" (previously discussed similar issue here)

• "Mighty Men of Valor" by Ergun Caner September 5, 2005 (link to mp3)

Around 0:25, Caner said, "Being the dean of a seminary is more of a distraction to me - I love doing debates - I love being in the midst of the world, and I have told the men before, that if you ever hear that I leave Liberty Seminary, it's not going to be because I'm going to another seminary, I would love, eventually, to end up some day in a secular university. Surround me at a state school and let me be the only Christian on one floor. Surround me with leftists, and liberals, and lesbians, and I'm happy, because I feel like that's where we are the most effective."

We know he didn't end up at a state school, but rather at more Christian colleges.  Furthermore, despite his professed love of debates, we don't actually see the evidence of him debating, except - apparently - for one engagement with rational response squad.

Around 1:15, Caner said: "The one we are working on right now is going to take us years to finish. We are completing the commentary on every verse of the Koran from a Christian perspective. Every single verse of the Koran that a Christian could read, if somebody cites it to them, and so that they may understand it and know how to refute it."

Over eight years later (i.e. in 2014), this commentary has yet to surface.

Around 1:55, Caner said: "This sermon came out of a debate point. Now, when I debate, I do not allow Christians to ask me questions. When we debate, its on state campuses, community colleges, I only allow non-Christians - cynics, skeptics, etc. - to ask me questions, because I like the engagement there - that they know I have nothing to fear, and we have no set up. And during a most recent debate, in May of this year, I heard an argument, by a Muslim, that caught me off guard, and I have to be very honest, he was correct. We were discussing American culture, and I had said that as a husband and as a father here in America I think that Christianity is the only hope that we have for American survival.  And I had just thrown in the husband and the father parenthetically - everywhere I go I speak about my family, my wife of 11 years, our two children Braxton who is 6 and Drake who is now 9 months. But he caught on to the parenthetical phrase and he said, and I quote, 'If you Christians believed that Jesus is the only hope, why is it that in your churches you cannot even get your men to come.' I had no response. I asked him if he had statistics to back that up. And so, he emailed them to me."

It would be great if we could locate this supposed debate.

Around 12:45, Caner said: "I knew how to be a Christian, because I'd been a Christian then for 12 years." (referring to when he got married at age 30, implying he became a Christian at age 18)

Caner's own claims about when he got saved are quite a mess.

Around 25:45, Caner said: "In my culture, in Turkey, in Istanbul, a woman's husband - his love for her, is measured by her shoes. What I mean is, if a woman is wearing rubber-soled shoes, she works in the fields; if she wears full shoes, she works in walking much, if she wears heels, however, it means that her husband makes enough money that he can afford to work alone - and she doesn't have to work - she wears these high heels - the higher the heel, the richer the husband. We had been married about a month, I talk half my paycheck and went and bought her six inch stiletto heels.  I put them in a box, I bring them to her. I let her open it. I said, 'Baby, this is for you.' 'What? I couldn't wear these!' I said, 'I want you to wear them.' 'What you want me to dress like a hooker?' 'No, no, no, I give these to you because I want to show you that I want to care for you.' 'You better give me this to make you wear them!' Now the culture wears toe rings. Do you know that in my culture we wear toe rings to show that we're single. A woman wears a toe ring because it's the only thing that you can see. She is covered. And so when Jill started wearing a toe ring, I said, 'Baby, you advertising - what's the deal here?' I didn't understand."

Clearly Caner's stories get a laugh, but Caner was raised in Ohio.  His Turkish family would not have been dressed in such extreme amounts of covering as to have only their toes visible.  And, of course, Caner went to public high school, and so on.  Is any of this true?

Around 34:50, Caner said: "It was hard because I had been raised, my father referring to his wives as 'woman.'"

Notice the implication that his father was a polygamist.  Yet, as far as we can tell, Caner's father had only one wife at a time.

-TurretinFan

Tom McCall - Conversation with Dr. Ergun Caner

This conversation, between Tom McCall and Ergun Caner, was recently posted to Youtube, but appears to be from several years ago, while Ergun Caner was with Liberty Theological Seminar (not sure how many years ago, exactly) (link to video).  It has some of the usual claims, and some interesting situations.

Around 45 seconds in, the host says that he believes Caner was originally from Turkey. Caner responds: "Well, I am Turkish, 100% Turkish, and came to America as an immigrant, and as the son of a muezzin.  My father was a leader in the mosque and we built mosques - this was part of our background.  And so, because of this, we came here to work on the mosques."

Caner was a toddler when he came and we have found no evidence to corroborate this claim that his father built any mosques.  Possibly, Caner's father helped remodel the building that served as the Islamic Foundation on Broad St. in Columbus, Ohio.  As for being a "muezzin," we again have nothing to substantiate this claim.

Also, Caner now admits that his mother was Swedish.  Even if his mother were Turkish but merely a Swedish citizen, or something like that, it still pops out that Caner does not correct McCall's wrong impression that Caner is from Turkey, but instead provides information that will lead McCall to continue to think what he thought.

Around 1:30, the host asks what the reaction of Caner's family was to his conversion.  Caner responds: "Well, I was saved on a Thursday night.  And so, the next night I went back to the mosque, masjid is on - you know - jumiyat is on Friday prayer, and told them that I was a believer in Jesus.  That was not well received.  But I was disowned by my father, and disowned by my family. Did not see my father until 1999, till right before he died.  But my church was my new family."

Apparently, Caner was disowned by his non-custodial father.  However, Caner was not - as far as we can tell - disowned by his hippy-universalist mother nor by his Swedish Lutheran (background, at least) grandmother, who raised him.

Around 5:30, Caner states: "I get to Genesis, and Abraham, in Genesis 22, sacrifices his son, Isaac.  This is exactly opposite - the polar opposite - of what the Quran teaches, that Abraham sacrifices Ishmael."  The host mentions how he first heard that this was the Muslim view. Caner then responds, "And the Quran is explicit in this, and Mohammed's teachings in the Hadith are explicit in this. And then, I find out, 2200 years after Moses wrote it, and add 500 years to that, 2700 years after it actually happened, Mohammed changed the story."

As I previously wrote:

This is actually a widespread modern Islamic view, namely that Abraham nearly sacrificed Ishmael, not Isaac. Sam Shamoun points out, however, that the early Islamic literature actually supports the fact that it was Isaac. The idea that nearly sacrificed son was Ishmael is apparently a later Islamic development (see Sam's excellent discussion here). So, it's probably not accurate to say that Mohammed changed the story, but rather that his followers did.

In short, it's not explicit in the Quran, and it's not even clear from the Hadith.

Around 8:15, Caner states: "Those with lies can only threaten, because the truth is its greatest danger.  ... Those that don't have the truth, the only thing they have left are lies and threats and screaming."

This cliche seems oddly appropriate in these times where Caner has threatened action against those who are presenting the truth.

Around 8:30, Caner states: "Most of my life I spend with people yelling at me in debates and such, but that's ok, you know."

Where are any of these debates?  We cannot find any evidence of these happening.

The host then asks Caner about the fact that Caner had indicated that he likes to debate and spends a good deal of time debating on college campuses and elsewhere.  Caner replied, "I go into debates - open debates - which means pro bono, nobody makes any money. We don't want any Christian sponsorship for them. I debate anyone who comes: Buddhist, Bahai, Zoroastrian, Sunni, Shia, Suffi, Nation of Islam, I debate anyone."

Again, we cannot find any evidence of these debates actually happening.

The host then asks Caner who invites him to these debates. Caner replied, "Sometimes it's college ministries and churches. But I tell them, you know, if you're going to set this up, this needs to be with the approval of the school and it must be an open forum - anybody can speak. And my only rule is that no Christian can ask me a question. Only the unbelievers can ask me questions, because I think if I'm going to spend my life planting seeds, I'm not going to plant a seed in a Christian, he's already saved. And the Muslim will suspect it, or the Buddhist, he will suspect the question. I let them ask whatever question they think. They spend their lives thinking they are going to stump us, you know, and so throw your best shot."

Yet again, we cannot find evidence of any of these debates actually occurring.

The host then asks what happens at the debates.  Around 9:50, Caner replied: "Well, sometimes it becomes the gospel according to Jerry Springer. Sometimes it becomes yelling and cussing and etc. But not on my end. You know, we have to be bold but not brash. The difference is bold, you attack the lie, but if you're brash, you attack the person."

We definitely have noticed the tendency of Caner and company to attack the people who point out Caner's untrue statements.  Regarding Jerry Springer, recall this previous post (link).

Around 12:45, Caner says: "I love my job at Liberty, but if I was ever to leave Liberty University, it would be to teach at a secular school.  You know, put me on a floor where I'm surrounded by lesbians, and liberals, and idiots, and potheads, because where else is Christianity going to be effective? We have never been called, God never called us to apathy, he never called us to sedation.  He called us to engagement. And it's not jihad, like I lived, it's an engagement of converting the enemy, loving the enemy, who is not really the enemy, but is someone for whom Christ died."

Now, since Caner has left Liberty, he's served - as far as we can tell - only at Christian colleges.  Of course, he could not predict the future, so we can't totally hold this against him. Still, one wonders what efforts Caner has made to try to teach at a secular school, if any.

Also, note Caner's claim to have lived "jihad." Of course, that claim could presumably be justified by treating jihad as an internal struggle, but Caner has elsewhere objected to using the term jihad that way.

Around 17:10, Caner says, "The Josh McDowell of the Islamic world, Shabir Ally, is famous for asking the question in debate, he always says, 'Well, what does his death have to do with me?' You have to find a way to explain the atonement to a Muslim."

If only Caner had stuck with this version of the story rather than inserting himself into the story in other versions of this story!  Still, one wonders if Shabir Ally ever even said this in any of his debates.  I have listened to some of Shabir's debates and I don't recall hearing this line.

-TurretinFan

Back to Blogger Comments ...

Unfortunately, the use of more elaborate commenting schemes was slowing down the blog.  So, we're back to Blogger comments for now.  Unfortunately, that means many pearls of wisdom posted on the blog are not fully lost, but also may not be visible to the public.  If some one of your comments is gone and you want to repost it, please feel free.

On the 24 Hour Days "Argument" in Genesis

Arguing 24 hour days in Genesis is hardly necessary - the text doesn't just say day - it specifies the kind of day - the kind with evening and morning. It's not so much a question of arguing as just basic reading comprehension.

I posted the above on Facebook recently, and got some objections.  I've posted the objections with my responses.  I've tried to use some color coding to help highlight what words came from the objectors, although I've taken a little bit of liberty in terms of simplify, rewording, or omitting portions of the objections. I have not named the objectors, but would be happy to do so, if either of them wants to be named.

An objector might respond that the text specifies the pattern of the day but uses the evening and morning pattern, not the hour by hour pattern.

The value of this objection is low.  If the objector's point is that a day could have been 25 hours or 23.5 hours - and didn't have to be precisely 24 hours - fine.  But if the point is that "day" could have meant a billion years - that's an entirely different thing.  Such a meaning for "day" is totally unreasonable.

The objector may respond that the argument is overstated in the sense that there is no way one can prove the 24hr day theory from the text.

Nevertheless, the text says day.  Moreover, the text specifies the morning/evening kind of day.  That kind of day is approximately 24 hours long.  It's hard to see what could possibly be missing in that proof.

The objector may respond "That kind of day is approximately 24 hours long" is a scientific assumption you are reading back into the text. It assumes that the days as we observe today are exactly the same as the days of Genesis.

But no, it is not a "scientific" assumption.  Instead, it is the plain meaning of "evening/morning" to the Israelites to whom God through Moses wrote the text. In other words, the only way to try to poke a hole in the argument is to throw out grammatical/historical hermeneutics.

Another objector might respond that the method I just mentioned is exactly what I am suggesting we do with our current Scientific understandings.

Instead, I am just suggesting that the assumption of indefinite uniformity in the past is unjustified.

In response to "No, it's not a "scientific" assumption - it's the plain meaning of "evening/morning"" the first objector may respond that this is exactly the same prima facie proofing dispensationalists use for their eschatological theories. No one reads scripture in the sense of a strict grammarian, there are more factors that are involved in reading the text.

First, the only reason for not reading it according to the plain meaning is a desire to harmonize it with some ideas the objector got outside the text.  Furthermore, there is no need to falsely associate my objector's view with someone else to point out that error.

Now, regarding dispensationalists and some of their interpretations - typically those errors the objector is pointing out arise in the context of trying interpret prophecy: statements about future events. That's a different genre from history. IF(!) dispesnationalists apply the same kind of interpretation to prophetic passages as to historical passages, it is no surprise that they have errors.

The objector may respond that he is just pointing out the methodological approaches to reading scripture. Appeals to a "plain sense" reading are similar to the arguments heard from dispensationalists. It doesn't mean the argument is invalid, it just means that particular methodology needs to be avoided.

Of course, the fact that people who come to wrong conclusions (let's just assume they do, to avoid turning this into an eschatology discussion) sometimes use a specific form of argument does not make that argument wrong or suggest that the form of argument should be avoided.

Still, the objector may ask about "The plain sense of x": What do you mean "plain sense"?

What I mean is not some secret meaning, like in a parable or prophecy; nor some specialized technical meaning, like in some detailed discussions of theology or other technical writing.  It's the ordinary meaning people normally associate with the word.

So, for example, when God says he made Eve from Adam's rib, rib means one of those bones around Adam's lungs: it is not a code word for something else. On the other hand, when God speaks of the "Lion of the Tribe of Judah," that's a prophetic reference to Jesus. Different genres, different ways of looking at words.

The objector may then ask: would you argue that because Genesis 1-3 is describing events that are historical, that there are no other literary elements at work? The text is giving us a history, but it isn't doing just that, nor is it doing it strictly chronological (more emphasis on the word strictly). It is providing us a theological understanding of the beginning of the universe, the world, and mankind.

You can have multiple literary elements at work in a single writing. For example, the gospels and Acts are historical accounts, but they are also providing a theological understanding of redemption, of Christology, and so on. We don't hold the third day resurrection as being somehow doubtful, just because there are other purposes to the gospels than just to provide history. So, we also shouldn't hold the sixth day Creation of man to be doubtful just because the purpose of Genesis is not just to provide history.

Now, if your point is that Genesis 1-3 is not "strictly" chronological, because after Genesis 1 describes the 6th day closing, Genesis 2 then provides more detail about the 6th day, ok. Likewise, if you are pointing out that God says first that "in the beginning" God created the heavens and the earth, before then explaining the day-by-day events of that, ok. In both cases, that's a departure from strict chronology. But Genesis 1 does present a sequence of events that are described as occurring chronologically, with explicit relative and absolute chronological references.

And recall that while much of the Pentateuch was Moses writing under inspiration, there is a section where God himself wrote the text, in his own hand, in stone. There he wrote: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is ... ."

The objector may respond that Ken Ham demonstrates that YECers rely on scientific models, so it's a bit odd to attribute that conclusion to OEC speculation.

They rely on scientific models in different ways, as Ken Ham also explained during the debate. For example, scientific models are sometimes offered to hypothesize how people lived such enormous lengths of time before the flood, or how the animals dispersed to places like Antarctica, South America, and Australia.

The objector may respond that it's quite a stretch to absolve Ham from placing how he reads on his scientific understandings, it would be a double standard. It all comes down to "Well since I agree with YEC, then Ham gets off the hook".

Maybe the objector thinks it is a stretch because he has overlooked that Ham's starting point is the text of Scripture, whereas for others the starting point is backwards extrapolation with a variety of assumptions, especially the assumption of indefinite uniformity.

The objector may respond that Ham asserts that his starting point is the text of scripture, but that's a verbal fiat. It doesn't carry over into all of his argumentation consistently.

He does, in fact, start with the text of Scripture. Now, if you are saying that at some points in his arguments he loses track of that starting point - ok - but that doesn't change his starting point, it just leaves room for improvement in his argument.

- TurretinFan