Wednesday, May 26, 2010

Dr. Caner's Testimony Before 11 September 2001


Dr. Caner's testimony before 2001 is something that his critics and allies alike would like to see, but finding a copy of it is proving elusive. (Photo at left, circa 2001, is hosted by middlecreekbible.org, I'm just linking to it.)

First, here are some post-9/11 testimonies.

Testimony on the 700 Club

According to a transcript, in one appearance on the 700 Club, Caner appeared to indicate that he was led to Christ, then his brothers, then his mother, and finally his grandmother.
What's wonderful is that day my father disowned me, but both of my brothers accepted Christ. My younger brother teaches at a seminary, I teach at a Christian College, my middle brother is a strong Christian and a member of a church, our mother accepted the Lord and is married to a church planter, and my grandmother accepted the Lord right before she died.
(Source)

Testimony in Unveiling Islam

The Caner brothers' book, Unveiling Islam states that Jerry Tackett was "an active member at Steltzer Road Baptist Church." Jerry invited Ergun Caner to revival services there. (Unveiling Islam, p. 18) Unveiling Islam goes on to state that on some unspecified day, which was a Thursday, Ergun came to Christ. Then, at a later unspecified date, Erdem came to Christ in the basement of "their home." Next, "the following year," Ergun invited Emir to a revival service. It states, "On November 4, 1982, Emir was born again." The book goes on to state that "In 1982, Ergun surrendered to the gospel ministry. It was the last time he saw [his] father for seventeen years. Acar disowned his sons ... ." (Unveiling Islam, p. 19) Unveiling Islam later states that it was Jerry Tackett who led Ergun to Christ and that it was Clarence Miller, the pastor of the Steltzer Road Baptist Church, who led Emir to Christ (Unveiling Islam, p. 21).

Testimony on the John Ankerburg Show

On the John Ankerburg show, Ergun Caner states that "a year later" than his own conversion, both his brothers accepted Christ (link to clip).

Testimony in Sermon "Church House to Jailhouse"

On the "Living with Joy" Radio interview, Ergun stated:
Finally he invited me to a revival. And so I walked in to Stelzer Road Baptist Church in Columbus, Ohio in full gear with a coat on. ... I stepped out of the second pew, walked to the front. Clarence was preaching and he had his eyes closed. "What?" I said, "Isa bin Allah. I believe Jesus is God. I want saved." And he said, "Could you wait for the invitation?" I said, "No." He led me to Christ standing in front of the whole church. ... I went home and told my father. I said, "Abi, I am born again. I'm saved." It was November 4, 1982 and it was the last day I saw my father. ... A year later both my brothers got saved.
(transcript here)

Testimony of Tim G.

Tim G. has claimed to have some inside knowledge of the Caner situation. He states:
The man who led him to Christ is still alive. Clarence Miller. He has attended all his inaugurations and graduations. If he or Emir were two white boys lying about being devout Muslims, do you really think he would abide that?
(source)

Interestingly, Tim G. also claims that Ergun Caner's mother was adopted, that she was not Swedish, and that the name of Ergun's grandmother is "Maria Eleonora Lindberg" the woman to whom Unveiling Islam is dedicated. Other things that Tim G. says (such as the reference to Ergun's two half-sisters) appear to be accurate. (Wade Burleson identifies Tim G. as Tim Guthrie, later in the comment box.)

Before 11 September 2001

However, before 11 September 2001, what was Ergun's testimony? It is hard to say. The image below (which I'm linking to ... it's hosted at archive.org) states that "Ergun Caner is the son of a Muslim clergyman. He was led to Christ by his grandmother and is currently completing his Ph.D. at the University of South Africa." The accompanying April 2001 newsletter states: "As you will see in the brochure, Dr. Caner is the son of a Muslim clergyman. His grandmother led him to Christ, after which his father disowned him." (source)


There are some inaccuracies in the poster for the conference. For example, Dr. Caner was at that time apparently studying for a Th.D. not Ph.D, and his father was not a Muslim clergyman, as far as we can tell.

-TurretinFan

19 comments:

gypsyrose said...

Unfortunately, it appears to me that the grandmother had a hand in wrecking the marriage. I have also seen this in several variations.
So sad to be the Caners, I can really feel for them now, however it does not excuse their lies about their background.
There was a Turkish article from 2002 that pretty much summed this up as trying to get even with Muslims because his father had turned his back on the children. It was intimated that it was not because of their conversion, but that family drama fostered by the other adults may have been too much to deal with. At least that is the impression I got from reading between the lines.

Turretinfan said...

gypsyrose:

Is this Turkish article available on the net? If so, do you have a link to it?

Ergun Caner Conman said...

Thank you for your great post.

gypsyrose said...

Yes it is, I found it last night.
It is in Turkish and the google translator will not do you much good because I tried to do it with another article and it did not make any sense. It needs to be translated directly from Turkish to understand the nuances implied.It is somewhat long and asks if anyone knows the family and can they verify Caner's account of his life.

natamllc said...

I would cut and paste on a word doc and send it off to the U.S. State Dept. Turkish consular division and ask them to translate it. They probably would do that?

Or just send it to the Turkish consulate and they would.

The Squirrel said...

Web. Tangled. Woven. Sad.

Squirrel

gypsyrose said...

I can translate it, but it is very long and contains some vocabulary that is very hard to put into exact words to convey the true meaning.

Here is the link and the article in Turkish:

http://www.tumgazeteler.com/?a=134867

Amerikalı Türk papazlar

İşin buraya varacağı belliydi de, işin içine `Türk papazlar`ın karışacağını ölsem akıl edemezdim. Önce şu `Türk papazlar` konusunu açayım. Ergun ve Emir Caner adlı iki kardeşin yolları, nasıl olmuşsa olmuş, ABD`ye düşmüş... Henüz doğru dürüst İngiliz


Taha Kıvanç

İşin buraya varacağı belliydi de, işin içine `Türk papazlar`ın karışacağını ölsem akıl edemezdim. Önce şu `Türk papazlar` konusunu açayım. Ergun ve Emir Caner adlı iki kardeşin yolları, nasıl olmuşsa olmuş, ABD`ye düşmüş... Henüz doğru dürüst İngilizce bile konuşamazken Hıristiyan olmaya karar vermişler. Orada da kalmamış, eğitimlerini `ilahiyat` alanında yapmışlar. İki birader, iki ayrı Hıristiyan kolejinde kilise tarihi dersleri veren iki doçent bugün... Hıristiyan olup kilise tarihi okutuyorlar, ama esas hizmet alanları Amerikalıları`İslam` konusunda aydınlatmak... Araştırdım, son iki yıldır sürekli bir yerlerde konferanslar vermiş, basın açıklamaları yapmışlar; konuları hep İslam... Son marifetleri de, `Unveiling Islam` (İslam`ın örtüsünü kaldırmak) adıyla bir kitap yayımlamak... İmzalarını taşıyan bu kitapla Amerika turuna çıkmışa benziyorlar... Büyüğü 16 yaşındayken Hıristiyan olan,

kilise tarihini uzmanlık alanı seçen Türk asıllı papazların `İslam` konusundaki iddialarının dayanağını duysanız şaşırırsınız:

#You would be very shocked by the
various allegations on the topic of "Islam" these two Turkish descent pastors, who have chosen to study Church History,make.#

Babalarının `müezzin` oluşu...


#Their claim that their father was a muezzin#
(Goes on to repeat their story about being 16 and converting, as taken from a propaganda brochure)

Bir propaganda broşüründe şunlar yazıyor: `Ergun, bir Müslüman müezzinin (İngilizcede bulunmayan bu sözcüğü `mwazien` diye yazmışlar) büyük oğlu. Müezzin vaiz gibi bir şey. 1982`de, henüz 16 yaşındayken, bir lise arkadaşının davetiyle, Columbus/Ohio`da bir ayine katıldı ve İsa`yı kabul etti.

(..Ergun`un anne-babası o sırada ayrı yaşıyorlardı ve `kurtuluşa erdiğini` duyan babası buna karşı çıkti.)

# Ergun's parent were separated at that point. (living separately), His father was against his decision to convert.#

Ergun inancından dönmeyince babası onu evlatlıktan reddetti. (..) Bu, ilişkilerinin sonu oldu; tam 17 yıl, ölümünden üç gün öncesine kadar, Ergun babasını görmedi.` Bu arada, 16 yaşında Hıristiyan olan Ergun`un hemen ertesi yıl papazlığa başladığını da öğreniyoruz.



#Their relationship had ended and the next year Ergun started to study for the priesthood, (in Turkish priest and pastor can be used interchangeably.)

İsveçli olduğunu söylediği annesi ve anneannesinin `Hıristiyan olmadığı` bilgisini de vermiş Ergun Caner.

# He said that his mother and grandmother were Swedish but "not Christian"#

`Hıristiyan olmuştum, ama henüz İngilizce bilmiyor, dini metinleri anlayamıyordum` diyen de o...

He is the one who claimed:I was a Christian, however I did not know any English, I really did not understand the rules of Christianity.#

Part 1

gypsyrose said...

Part 2

Şimdi ise Arapça biliyormuş;

#Now he claims to know Arabic#

ABD`deki Müslüman-kökenli 20 papazdan biriymiş... İslam hakkındaki görüşlerini BM`nin kültür işleri komisyonunda da anlatmış...

# He claims to be one of 20 former Muslims who have become priests/pastors. He also claims that he has explained to the U.N. Cultural Commission, his perspective on Islam.#


`Müezzin (yoksa vaiz mi demek istiyor? TK)

#He says Muezzin (did he mean to say volunteer coordinator/membership attendant?TK)
The writer injected this into the column to ask if he even knew the difference.#


çocuğu olduğum için Kur`an ve hadis öğrendim` diyor Ergun Caner ve bu bilgisi üzerine oturttuğu `uzmanlığını` konuşturarak, 1500 yıldır defalarca tekrarlanmış, son yıllarda bizde de epey müşterisi çıkmış İslam karşıtı tezviratı tekrarlayıp duruyor.

#He talks about how he learned Islam from the Qur'an and the hadiths because he was the son of the muezzin, and repeats the same allegations that have been repeated about Islam for 1500 years.#

Henüz kitap elime geçmedi, ancak Hıristiyan dergilerinde çıkan değerlendirmeleri okuyunca, içinde bilmediğimiz, daha önce söylenmemiş hemen hiç bir konu bulunmadığı anlaşılıyor...

#SInce I have not read the book and noticed that it was published by certain Christian circles, we can be sure that it certainly will not contain anything new or discuss new topics of research.#

`Buraya varacağı belliydi` dediğim `iş` bu tür tezviratların tehlikeli bir yöne çekilmesi...

#It can be understood that he would have reached this step, that is where the danger is apparent.#

Kendilerine sahip çıkan, okumalarını, iş sahibi olmalarını sağlayan bir topluluk içine girmişler, yapılan iyiliğe babalarının dinini kötüleyerek mukabele etmeye çalışıyorlar...

#They were raised in a group that helped them to study, and guaranteed them a job/business.For this help, they are attempting to smear and attack their father's religion.#

Çocukluk inançlarının hassasiyetleri düşünülürse anlaşılır bir duygu bu.

####Their childhood thoughts/feelings (trauma of divorce)can be understood well.###(see end for a better understanding)

Ancak, Caner biraderler, işi orada bırakmıyor, 11 Eylül sonrası paranoyasını büyütecek, kendileri sağken `kıyamet` kopmasını arzulayan sapkın inançlıların ekmeklerine yağ sürecek sözler de sarf ediyorlar... `Haçlı seferi` deyimini geri alırken, başkan Bush, `İslam barış dinidir` demişti ya, Caner biraderler `Hayır, İslam barış dini değildir` iddiasını yaygınlaştırma çabasındalar. Ergun Caner`e ait şu satırları beraberce okuyalım: `Bizden nefret ediyorlar. Yetiştirilme tarzları yüzünden bir Amerikalı ile bir Hıristiyan arasında herhangi bir fark görmüyorlar.` Ergun Caner`e göre, Amerika`da biri, karşı olduğu için bir doğum kontrol kiliniğini havaya uçurursa, bunu Hıristiyan inancının aksini söylemesine rağmen yapmış olur; oysa, İslam Dünyası`ndan biri, bir yere bomba koyduğunda, o dininin gereği olan `cihadı` yerine getirmiş olur... Müslüman olan herkes `potansiyel terörist` eski Müslümana göre... Türkiye`den ABD`ye gidip papaz olan Ergun Caner, `cihad` sözcüğünün üç aşamalı bir proje içerdiğini anlatıyor. Birinci aşama, 11 Eylül-vari bir eylem, yani `şok`... İkinci aşama, (O buna `dalga` diyor), insanlara ne kadar korumasız olduklarını hissettirmekmiş... Bu aşamaya verdiği örnek de Pakistan`da öldürülen gazeteci Daniel Pearl; `Öldürülmesini bu yüzden videoya kaydettiler` diyor... Üçüncü aşama ise, düşmanı rezil etmekmiş; bacaklarını kopartarak mesela... Bu sözlerin gözü dönmüş teröristlerin kafa yapısını anlatmak için sarf edildiğini sanmayın sakın. Ergun Caner, `Amerikalı ile Hıristiyan arasında fark görmüyorlar` demişti ya, bir şey daha söylüyor: `Biri Türk olduğunu söylediğinde, bu, onun Müslüman olduğu anlamına da gelir`...

gypsyrose said...

Part 3

#Recaps the Caners activities after 9/11. It also talks about Pres. Bush's speech on the peaceable version of Islam and then compares the blanket denunciations of Islam by Ergun as being equivalent to saying that those who blow up abortion clinics are also Christian and are the same as those who attack under the guise of Islam, yet Ergun's view holds them differently and only seeks to describe Islam as terrorist.#

`İş`in vardığı yer ise, çocukken Müslüman olan bu iki biraderin yazdıklarından cesaret alan Jerry Vines, Jerry Falwell gibi tiplerin, onların yazdıklarını kiliselerin vaaz kürsülerine, Hıristiyan tarikatları ve cemaatlarının gazete ve dergilerine taşımaları... Şimdilerde, en ünlü papazlar, en ciddi sayılan dergiler, İslam`a kin kusan cümleleri tekrarlayıp duruyorlar...

# Goes onto the Vines/Falwell connection and their (the Caner bros.) PR value for Vines/Falwell's own purposes/gain#

Bir `semavi din` için Hıristiyanlık adına tekrarlanan tezvirat karşısında şaşkınlığa düşmemek elde değil...

#It is impossible not to fall down in disbelief that for a "Peaceable Religion", Christianity, makes such allegations.#

Merakımı bağışlayın: Özgeçmişleri boşluklarla dolu Caner biraderler kimdir, tanıyanınız var mi?


#Please forgive my curiosity: Is there anyone who can fill in the holes in the background of the Caner brothers? Is there anyone who really knows them?#

2002-06-18 Yeni Şafak http://www.yenisafak.com.tr
(This is June 18, 2002)

###(The writer has woven a lite-motif through his analysis of the motivations of the Caner brothers, their childhood trauma, their mother and their grandmother's influence on their struggle against their father and his representation, in their mind as an embodiment of Islam. In Turkish culture as in many other cultures, the respected value of a grandmother or grandfather is enormous. Sometimes, more than even the parents because the parents are still the children of the grandparents and they will still abide by the commands of their parents.The writer alludes to this as perhaps the mother, as the child of the grandmother was atoning for marrying a Muslim, by turning her children away from their father as a concession to her own mother,by actively siding with her to "punish" the father, through her children by colluding with the grandmother to convert them to Christianity.)###

I wish I could do better for you to understand this because the usage of certain words convey cultural connotations and depths of the meaning are not understood well to those who were not reared in that culture.

Turretinfan said...

Thank you, gypsyrose. This article looks like a response to one of the appearances of Caner on the "700 Club," although it is hard to be sure without more knowledge of Turkish.

Anonymous said...

Caner said:
"May I submit to you, until I was 15 years old I was in the Islamic youth jihad. And so until I came to America; until I found Jesus Christ as Lord, I was trained to do that which was done on 11 September. As were thousands of youth"
[I'm quoting a news source]
He asked if he could submit this--he didn't say he did it!!
Is this how he tries to arrive at being truthful?
Godith

Coram Deo said...

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."

- Ministry of Truth in George Orwell’s 1984

Don’t lie – try misspeaking instead

Perhaps a plausable explanation is that Ergun has occasionally misspoken or uttered misstatements with unintentional frequency about certain interrelated subjects.

In Christ,
CD

Anonymous said...

Can this get any wackier?

Seriously, his grandmother is named as the one who led him to Christ prior to 9/11?

Is her name Jerry Tackett and was she a Free Will Baptist boy?

gypsyrose said...

This is a cached form of an article that analizes Turks who convert/revert to other religions by looking at their family history.
I have only used the part highlighting Ergun Caner's family

HAKAN GÜVEN
Sayı: 536/ Tarih : Mon Mar 14 00:00:00 EET 2005
Aksiyon (name of publication)

Asıl dinlerine dönüyorlar
##The by line is: They are returning to their religion of origin##
22 Şubat 2005 tarihli Hürriyet gazetesinde, Evanjelik Hıristiyanların kalesi olarak bilinen Liberty Üniversitesi'ne ilahiyat dekanı seçilen Ergun Caner'in, Müslümanlığı yaymak için ABD'ye göç eden bir imamın oğlu olduğuna dair bir habere yer verilmişti. Habere göre Ergun Caner, 16 yaşında iken Hıristiyan olmuş, ailesi onu reddetmiş, ancak kardeşi Emir Fethi de Hıristiyanlığa geçmişti. 2002'de yazdığı İslamiyet aleyhtarı kitapla meşhur olan Ergun Caner'in gelecekte ABD'de önemli bir din adamı olacağı öngörüsüne de yer veriliyordu.

##The newspaper Hurriyet, in its February 22, 2005 edition talks about Ergun Caner's appointment as Religion Dean. (I could not find this on their site, the article goes on about his history about his family background).###

Fakat, söz konusu haberde yer almayan ilginç ayrıntılar misyonerlik tartışmasına çok farklı bir açılım getiriyor.
##However, there is no mention of the rest of his family's history.##
Çünkü Ergun Caner'in annesi İnez Manica esmi kayıtlarda Müslüman gözükse de gerçekte İsveç asıllı. Ve kendisi hâlâ Hıristiyan.
##Even if his mother may seem to be a Muslim in some form,She is of Swedish background and she is still Christian##
Mehmet-İnez çifti 1981 yılında boşanır. Oğulları Ergun Caner, 1982'de resmi başvuruyla dinini değiştirir. Nüfus kayıtlarına göre Caner ailesinde Hıristiyanların sayısı İnez Manica ile sınırlı değil.
##Gives the divorce date wrong as 1981, 1982 Ergun converted to Christianity officially. Yet, that is not the whole story for the Christians in his family. It does not end with Inez Manica (his mother)##
Ergun Caner'in amcası Emrullah Fethi Caner, önce Evdoksiya isimli bir İstanbullu Rum'la evlenir.

##His uncle Emrullah Fethi Caner's first marriage was to a Greek woman , from Istanbul, named Evdoksiya##
Müteakip yıllarda ikinci evliliğini de Hamburg doğumlu Carlotta Wilrelmine ile yapar. Bir bakıma Ergun Caner, annesinin dinine geçiyor.

##In later years his second marriage was to Carlotta Wilrelmine, who is born in Hamburg (Germany). In one aspect, Ergun Caner reverted to his mother's religion##

Din değiştirmeden ziyade aslına dönüş

Mark | hereiblog said...

I've wondered about a few things. If Caner's mother had a Christian background why would he think Christians hated him? And how could he get along at clubs in school thinking Christians hated him?

Bennett Willis said...

I suspect that he did not realize that he was hated until late 2001--sometimes it just takes a while for these things to sink in. Of course 2010 is déjà vu all over again.

Martyrologist said...

Under the 700 Club Testimony, I'm not seeing the the quote within the source that was linked to. Am I missing it or did you have the wrong link?

Turretinfan said...

I think it was a wrong link. I fixed the link.

Anonymous said...

Just read that link.

The Youth Jihad at the Mosque beat him up? Was that in Toledo or the Islamic Center in Columbus?

There are some pretty rough people in Toledo.....just ask Max Klinger.