Wednesday, October 13, 2010

Ergun Caner - October 10, 2010 - Liberty Baptist Church

Apparently, Ergun Caner is still out there preaching. According to the Liberty Baptist Church of Bear, Delaware, website, Caner preached there on October 10, 2010. (source)(direct link to mp3)

I've listened to the sermon and identified some remarks that may be of interest to those who have been following the Caner saga. Times below are approximate.

3:45 Dr. Caner claims father-in-law is from "Possum Kill"

We've discussed this frequent claim before (link). I can buy that this is a joke, but some folks seem to think it's meant to be taken literally.

5:15 Dr. Caner claims full name is "Ergun Mehmet Caner"

This is the first time I recall him specifically saying that his full name is that. However, we've previously discussed the thorny issue of figuring out what Dr. Caner's real middle name is (link to discussion).

8:00 Dr. Caner says "The only book that matters is the Bible, and I've gotta be really honest, all the other books lie, and I've written one on marriage, and I'm just gunna tell you, 'we lie!'"

He's probably telling the truth here, but he doesn't seem very contrite about it - almost as though it is a laughing matter. Listen for yourself.

9:30 Dr. Caner claims that he tells his sons to lie to their mother about what they eat when they travel with him

Again, I have no reason to doubt that he's telling the truth in this instance, but he does not seem at all remorseful for his actions.

9:45 Dr. Caner makes the sign of the cross at the name of "Dunkin' Donuts," and claims that he would take communion with Dunkin' Donuts if he could

You'll have to check out the video link to see the sign, and perhaps I've just been hanging around too many Roman Catholics lately, but I was shocked.

30:30 Dr. Caner claims that "we came to America to build mosques" and that what his father did when he came was exactly that

His father may have come with that intent, but "we" seems a stretch, considering how young Caner was when he arrived (apparently he was around 3 years old).

31:00 Dr. Caner claims to have been wearing keffiyeh

I've discussed this claim in my response to Norman Geisler (see this discussion here).

31:40 Dr. Caner claims that Jerry Tackett started evangelizing him his Freshman year, and didn't quit until his senior year

From what we can tell, it appears that Caner was actually saved in his sophomore or junior year, rather than his senior year (see some discussion here).

33:30 Dr. Caner claims that he finally relented to Jerry in his senior year

Same issue already addressed above.

40:05 Dr. Caner claims he went home (after the revival service at which he was saved) and told his dad, and that was the last day he saw his father until just before his father's death

This account may be true, but it is questionable, since according to his report, the revival service was held on a Thursday, and Caner's mother (not father) had primary custody of him by that time in his life.

41:05 Dr. Caner claims he lost his family.

Dr. Caner lost his father, which was a sufficiently bad tragedy. As far as we can tell, he continued to live with his mother, grandmother, and brothers. Calling that losing one's family seems a little exaggerated.

41:10 Dr. Caner claims that the church became his family.

Same claim, essentially, as above.

42:15 Dr. Caner states:
A year later, even though I didn't know what it meant, I stepped out on a Sunday morning, stepped forward and told Pastor Clarence that I thought I was called to ministry - I don't know how y'all do it here, pastor, but - cause you planted this place, you do it the way you did it - but here's how Clarence Miller did it - Clarence Miller turned me around in front of the church, and said (imitating voice)"Well, bless God" -- he's still alive, and he still talks like that -- (resuming voice) "this morning, brother Arrogant comes forward" - yeah, he couldn't get my name right either, he called me "Arrogant" -- (voice again)"Brother Arrogant comes forward to surrender to the gospel ministry. He'll be preaching his first sermon tonight." It was, in the history of Christendom, the shortest sermon ever preached. I had like four hours to prep. I got up, heaven/hell narrow/wide Jesus/devil "just as I am." [42:15] But I discovered that both of my brothers had gotten saved.
This wording is a little ambiguous, but it sounds similar to Dr. Caner's previous apparent claim that his brothers were saved by his first sermon (link to discussion).

44:10 Gibberish

At least, I think it is Gibberish. If anyone who knows Swedish, Turkish, and/or Arabic has time to check the seeming gibberish that Caner speaks while recounting the fact that his grandmother got saved, and report back whether it is any known tongue, I would appreciate it.

-TurretinFan

13 comments:

natamllc said...

I look forward to watching the video in reference.

Although, I detect there is some moderation in this report as to his flare?

That's a good sign and quite possibly can be credited to your hard work, scholarly and exacting and difficult at times as it has been!

Our aim, with him at least, seeing there are things he has said that I have heard with my own ears that are not from the knowledge of man is still and remains, "repentance" from dead works and Faith towards God ...!

Turretinfan said...

"Although, I detect there is some moderation in this report as to his flare?"

Some, perhaps.

Coram Deo said...

"Brother Arrogant"; LOL!

Who could have known that Pastor Clarence was speaking so prophetically?!?

In Christ,
CD

natamllc said...

TF,

having been able to get through most of the video, it just stops repeatedly at one point, so I turned to the audio and listened to it fully last night, I have mixed emotions.

I wonder the civility was because of the sons being in attendance? His delivery was certainly toned down a few notches. It seems to me the error that has entrapped him isn't going to be cleansed from him readily, especially if doors of opportunity continue to open for him to get up and tell his tales of two kingdoms?

It seems Southern Baptists have a new and exciting approach to restoration of convicted liar? Sin is sin and to be delivered from the sin is quite a bit different than until death do we part, the sinner/Saint!

Besides the good Arminian points of the story of the lad and his fishes and barley loaves, edifying to some who so happened to be sitting there defeated by their inability full sinful human nature, the message was a good just hold on until rescue comes message. I kinda got a sense this was some kind of "camp meetin'" for teenagers?

I haven't as yet been able to divide the two, though, edification of the sullen and discouraged and obedience to the Faith teachings with the Holy Spirit present exhorting? Can you suggest some sound reasoning for it?

It seems this was a gathering of "get the friend" into church tonight to hear a guest speaker, service, a modern day camp meeting??

I did, ironically, enjoy the Pastor's close and his Scriptural referrals in his closing benediction! How about you?

Debbie Kaufman said...

natamllc: There was not one thing about this presentation that I enjoyed. Not one thing.

natamllc said...

Debbie,

I completely understand that.

However, my role in all this as a Minister of the Gospel is to seek reconciliation correctly and as much, from a far distance, I can pray for him and his family.

If God can use donkeys and snakes to entrap the devil and man, he can use Dr. Caner too.

What's that verse:

Heb 12:12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees,
Heb 12:13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed.
Heb 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

Heb 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

If perchance Christ allows me to have an audience with Dr. Caner, I certainly would want to open a line of reasoning with him and let him explain to me firsthand the discrepancies? I would gladly do it. And if he received me in repentance I would administer the absolution!

The solution to the pollution is not dilution, it's absolution and as a member of the Royal Priesthood and Our Holy Nation, I would exercise my privileges with him in the ministry of reconciliation. I too have received from Christ, Grace!

This verse has been bouncing around in my head all day:

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


As you know, mercy triumphs over judgment!

And the love I seek to extend to him and his family and to all his lies and deception has harmed unwittingly isn't my love anyway!

1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

Anonymous said...

He teaches tells his sons to lie about where they eat out when they travel with him? So that is a lie, which it is, but saying you came in 1978 on over a dozen occassions is just misspeaking? ERGUN--you have lied for years...

Telling your kids to lie to their mother on where they ate is wrong Ergun...or anyone else! I hope your wife confronts you on this lying problem you have. Maybe you will repent.

Ken said...

44:10
Gibberish (if not Swedish, then for sure it was Gibberish)

For sure, it was not Turkish, nor Arabic (nor Farsi) sometimes over the years Ergun Caner also claimed he was "Persian".

Anonymous said...

Did Ergun write a book on marriage?

Turretinfan said...

Thanks, Ken!

Anonymous:

The only books that he wrote, of which I'm aware, are these (link).

However, perhaps he wrote a book that hasn't been published, or something like that.

-TurretinFan

Anonymous said...

Such scholarly people, still taking time to dissect a brother's sermon. What a great use of your time. Shame, shame. Your "diligence" makes me ill with disgust. Whatever respect I had for A&O Ministries, for Calvinists in general and for the bloggers who have been involved in this spectacle, has long since departed. Pearls before swine, dust off my feet. Nothing new here.

Turretinfan said...

Yes, the real problem is not someone teaching his kids to lie, talking about lying in a book he wrote, or lying about his testimony, the real problem is people holding him accountable for that.

[end sarcasm]

Of course, the real problem is treating a notorious, unrepentant liar as a brother.

UnaGrad said...

http://c3churchvideo.podbean.com/2012/01/01/new-years-day-service-special-guest-dr-ergun-caner/