Tuesday, June 08, 2010

Caner's Comments at Southwest Baptist Church - January 23, 2010

I managed to locate, via iTunes (R) , two addresses by Dr. Caner presented at the Southwest Baptist Church, Amarillo, TX, January 23, 2010. They are titled: "A Former Muslim Defends the Christian Faith." You should be able to find them through iTunes. However, should you wish to download them directly, I've found mp3s of them here (first presentation)(second presentation)

First presentation

  • 1:30 Explains that Abdul Saleeb is title meaning "slave of the cross"

This contrasts oddly to his claim to have debated someone called "Abdul Saleeb."

  • 2:00 Caner claims that he and his brother write under their real names
  • 6:30 Caner claims his name is Ergun Mehmet Caner and explains that "Mehmet" is "Mohammed in Turkish."

He probably just means that people can link his writings to him. Nevertheless, it is a little odd that he claims this, if Mehmet is not his real name, which seems to be an open question.


This is basically the same story he told when interviewed by Pastor Lloyd about the famous (pseudo-?) tasing incident.

  • 5:15 Caner calls his marriage a “mixed marriage”
  • 7:15 Caner calls his children “half breed”
  • 8:15 Caner calls his marriage the “ultimate mixed marriage”
  • 8:30 Caner claims he has to spray on PAM (R) in order to get a tan.
  • 5:45 Caner mentions his joke about his father-in-law coming from "Possum Kill, NC"
  • 46:00 Caner tells the audience, “Thanks for listening to a towelhead.”

Caner's not politically correct, as we've noted before. The majority of his comments are directed at himself and/or his family, though, so it doesn't seem fair (to me) to accuse him of having antipathy for those he's commenting on.

  • 10:15 Caner claims he didn't get saved until he was almost in college.
  • 40:30 Caner claims, "I was raised to hate you, and until I was almost in college, that's exactly what I did."
  • 42:00 Caner claims that Jerry Tackett started evangelizing him in 9th grade and continued to his senior year, and then “finally in senior year” he went to church with Jerry, where he got saved
  • 43:10 Caner claims the same group led his two brothers to Christ a year later.

We've seen similar claims before (see here for example). This time the separation is a year, not 8 months, but that could just be rounding error. Nevertheless, it's strange that when Caner gives a date is not his senior year of high school, but his junior year or earlier (as mentioned here).

  • 12:45 Caner claims, “I had no family,” after his conversion

As far we can tell, he continued to live with his mother and grandmother after his father disowned him, just as he did before his father disowned him.

  • 24:30 Caner claims he was a horrible pastor, because he doesn't have the gift of mercy - he was a "Christian grump," he says.
  • 27:45 Caner claims, "I stank as a Pastor," and that he drove away lots of people on purpose.

I don't necessarily believe this, though I suppose he may just being humble. He has apparently actually had success in increasing attendance.

  • 41:15 Caner claims, "I lived and died trying to do one more good than bad. And if I couldn't work it out so that I had one more good than bad, I always had the option: jihad. If I was a jahid, if I was a martyr in an act of jihad, then I could get forgiveness."

As noted in a previous post, there does not appear to be any such thing as "a jahid." The term is mujahideen. See also this discussion relating to Caner's Arabic.

  • 43:00 Caner claims he lived with the church after he was disowned.

Perhaps Caner just means this metaphorically, but the only evidence we can find suggests that Caner continued to live with his custodial mother (and grandmother) after his father disowned him.

  • 43:25 Caner claims his father had other wives.

We have only seen evidence of two wives total, and never any evidence of their marriages overlapping.

  • 44:00 Caner claims his grandmother never learned English and was "mean as a snake."
  • 45:20 Caner claims that his brother tried to continue the baptism in “our language” after his attempt in English failed
  • 45:25 and 35 Caner claims that his grandmother hit Emir during the baptism and told him, "Do it!"
  • 45:30 Caner claims that his grandmother’s baptism is on tape.

It's interesting that Caner's comment about his grandmother's knowledge of English is confirmed by what Jerry Tackett allegedly said. The "mean as a snake" claim gets a laugh, but this isn't the first time we've seen that kind of comment from Caner. The idea of the baptism being on tape is interesting - if someone can locate this tape, we can finally get some direct confirmation of one of Caner's stories!

Second presentation

  • 10:10 Caner claims to have learned about America through watching TV in Turkey, based on what the government allowed. He includes the discussion of Dukes of Hazzard and the claim that he wanted to marry Daisy and work at the Boar's Nest. He also mentions Georgia Wrestling and the Andy Griffeth show.

We've previously shown that this cannot possibly be true, because of when the Dukes of Hazzard started to air.

  • 16:00 Caner criticizes political correctness and states, "I've spent ten years just offending everybody, I'm an equal opportunity offender.” He then goes on to explain why he thinks “Dora the Explorer” is an illegal immigrant. (same basic joke around 6:20 here)

I realize that Caner's comments may offend people, but I don't get the sense he does it out of hatred. He makes joking comments, but seems to be doing it to get a laugh, not to make others cry.

  • 19:45 Caner states, "All the debates I've had, and you go to erguncaner.com they're free - I'm not selling anything - they're free - the debates are podcasts and you can just do with them what you want - All the debates I've ever had, I have never met one Muslim, who has ever said that the Allah of the Koran and Jehovah God of the Bible are the same god."

We've previously discussed the issue of Caner's debates that can be found on the net. And while I realize it is not a debate, Caner has been on a show with a Muslim who claimed that Christians and Muslims worship the same god.

  • 24:40 Caner states, "I will say this, and I look at my students and I go, to the black students, 'They're coming after you! They're going to get your month. It's going to be "Latin history month" and you're going to be left with Cinqo de Blacko.'"

Again, a politically incorrect joke, but I don't think he means to hurt anyone's feelings.

  • 29:45 Caner states, "I was raised to hate Israel, but now I stand with Israel. It's odd these days, that that seems to be more and more rare. But God will never honor a country - hear me - God will never honor a country that abandons Israel."

Caner is entitled to his opinion, of course, but expressing this kind of opinion publicly is not a great way to win over Muslims.

  • 30:40 Caner states, "And if you know someone, a female, who is dating a Muslim man, first of all, why is that? I don't know. Knowing Islam the way I do, seeing the way my mother was treated, I couldn't possibly imagine why somebody would."

This is about the only negative thing that I've ever heard Caner say about his father, which I say to his praise.

  • 31:40 Caner states, "I was having a debate up at the University of Chicago with a female - ironically - with a female Islamic scholar. And she said, 'Well, you do not understand. First off, the word there means "to tap"' And I said, 'No, the word there does not mean "to tap" and secondly I quote from my wife, "if you ever tap me lightly I will stomp a mudhole in you and walk it dry."'"

I cannot find any record of Caner debating any female Muslims, or any Muslim scholars. It appears that Caner is claiming to have debated “Laleh Bakhtiar” a female scholar who is also Muslim and has been involved in translating the Koran. She is from Chicago, so if Caner were to debate a female Muslim scholar there on that topic, she would be the one - though we must note that Caner did not use her name.

  • 32:42 Claims that his father-in-law is from "Possum Kill."

We've discussed this before.

  • 33:30 Caner states that he told his father-in-law, “You eat squirrel brains, you redneck, you can eat this.” (same comment at 12:40 here)

We've also touched on this before.

  • 37:00 Caner mentions the triple talaq divorce procedure in Islam, and he claims that the husband faces Mecca when he says talaq.

This is something that Dr. White touched on his video regarding Caner's use of Arabic.

  • 40:40 Caner states, "Sharia law is the operational constitution for Muslim countries. The Koran is supposedly one long speech by god - by Allah - false god, but the Hadith, it's actually multi-volumes, nine volumes - its called "Al-Bukhari's Hadith" - and it's the words and teachings and sayings and examples and laws of Mohammed. And the Hadith is the constitution for Sharia law. So if you get caught robbing, your arm is cut off - lying, your tongue is cut off. This is because that is what's taught in the Hadith."

Dr. Caner is not accurately describing the Hadith here. Al-Bukhari's Hadith, known as Sahih al-Bukhari, is one of a number of collection of ahadith (plural of hadith). It can be presented in terms of nine volumes, but of course there are other Hadith collections, such as Sahih Muslim and Sunan Abu Dawood.

  • 47:30 Caner states, "I have websites dedicated to attacking Emir and I. Pastor saw some last night, Youtube videos. Guys that have done an entire Youtube channel to say, 'They were never a Muslim, because no Muslim has ever converted.' Well no Muslim has converted and lived in your country, but I'm standing right here.”

This is not an accurate characterization of Caner's critics. If that's what he sincerely thinks the criticism is, I'd be very surprised, but only God knows Caner's heart.

  • 49:20 “To be really honest, I cannot thank you enough. For a kid, who came to this country in a dress, whose life has been so radically altered that the only thing left is my undying devotion to Rick Flair, for you to sit and listen to me babble on it just means the world to me. Thank you, God bless you.”

This has been addressed above.

  • 54:20 The following exchange occurs:
    Caner: I cannot believe I just did that in front of a church.
    Host Pastor: Hey, just like right up there and wave, would ya? Yeah.
    Caner: You're not filming this are you? I need a job. They're gunna fire me.

I hope that Caner is not fired over this debacle. However, I do think that Caner should be more careful about his speeches, not just in terms of the particular thing that worried him in this instance (apparently it was some sort of wrestling-related action) but in general. Even leaving aside the apparent embellishments, there are a number of improvident comments in his speech. I hope that one benefit Caner receives from reflecting on this situation is that he more carefully guards his tongue.

- TurretinFan

8 comments:

Lockheed said...

Ungh... this cult of telling one's "testimony" over and over reminds me of my childhood.

nardeen said...

What?!? The band Skillet is still around?

Wow, I'm getting old(er).

Anonymous said...

TurretinFan,

You are really bending-over backwards to play the neutral critic. I can respect this fact, but I disagree with you that Caner should not be fired. Not only is his scholarship flimsy, he is not a man who is training men to be God-fearing pastors. Being likable is not a reason to hire a man as a President of a Seminary.

Anonymous said...

Too much Caner. Not enough Jesus

natamllc said...

Anon

I have been giving a bit of thought to the question you bring in here. I have been praying sincerely for Thomas Road, Liberty University, Dr. Caner and his immediate family and for all those have been touched personally, affecting and impacting them morally.

Here's the only verse I would put forth, as my position in the matter seeing as the cliche' goes, I don't have a dog in this fight:


Pro 26:17 Whoever meddles in a quarrel not his own is like one who takes a passing dog by the ears.

Dr. Caner does have a "touch" from Heaven and the Holy Spirit. There is much that comes from him that attests to that.

How this one goes down and how the powers that be dispose of this affair is going to be awkward any which ole way it goes.

May the Good Lord shake the heavens and earth and trouble the spirits of the devils and cast them down to the earth!


Joh 12:20 Now among those who went up to worship at the feast were some Greeks.
Joh 12:21 So these came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, and asked him, "Sir, we wish to see Jesus."
Joh 12:22 Philip went and told Andrew; Andrew and Philip went and told Jesus.
Joh 12:23 And Jesus answered them, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.
Joh 12:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
Joh 12:25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Joh 12:26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.
Joh 12:27 "Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? But for this purpose I have come to this hour.
Joh 12:28 Father, glorify your name." Then a voice came from heaven: "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."
Joh 12:29 The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, "An angel has spoken to him."
Joh 12:30 Jesus answered, "This voice has come for your sake, not mine.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
Joh 12:33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

In the mean time, there is not one of us who name the Name of Christ who are going to make it out of here alive any other way than by dying daily to self, picking up our proverbial cross and letting the Glory of God have full place in our daily walk!

Sameh said...

There are so many errors in what Caner says about what Islam teaches and Muslims believe that I wouldn't know where to start. But the one that got me laughing is the cutting of the tongue of someone caught lying... that was just priceless (and of course total B.S.), I guess next he will say cutting the penis of someone caught having extra-marital sex!! :)

terriergal said...

He also claims that "braxton" or something like it (making a weird pronunciation of it for effect, like "brax toonnn") means "warrior" in Maori. I asked a kiwi friend and he says "hori" means "warrior" in Maori. He didn't offer anything close to "braxton" as an alternative.

Turretinfan said...

And compare here: (link to etymology)

-TurretinFan