Pastor Lloyd Interviews Ergun Caner

One of the readers of this blog, bruineric, brought to my attention an interview of Ergun Caner by Pastor Lloyd (link to interview). The interview is dated January 2009. The listing for the interview states:

Pastor Lloyd interviews Ergun Caner

Ergun Caner is the President of Liberty Theological Seminary at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. When Dr. Caner was named to the position in 2005, he became the first former Muslim to become the leader of an evangelical seminary. Along with his brother Emir, Caner has become a leading voice for evangelicalism on the national stage. He has been a guest on such networks as FOX News, MSNBC, CNBC, the BBC, and TBN. Dr. Caner has debated Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Bah'ai over sixty times at universities and colleges. He has written fourteen books, including When Worldviews Collide (LifeWay 2005), on the subject of global apologetics and defending the Christian faith.

The fourteen books are not listed. The debates are not listed. To my knowledge, we cannot find evidence of "over sixty" debates in which Dr. Caner has participated. (see here regarding his debates) (see here regarding his books)

The first 45 seconds are Pastor Lloyd essentially reading the paragraph above. I won't repeat the critique already provided above.

Starting at 1 minute, 4 seconds, Caner gives his one-minute testimony. He states:

"I am Turkish, raised 100% Turk, and came to America in 1978 as a teenage boy. We came here because my father was a muezzin in the mosque, the one who does the call to prayer. And very devout Muslims - and settled in Columbus, OH, because my father built mosques. And so, as an architect, his use to the mosque was that he would do that, and he did that until his death in 1999. And so that brought me here. I'm the oldest of his three sons from our mother. He had other wives, but - the conversion took place in 1982 - I became a believer in Jesus Christ and subsequently lost my family. And so, from that time until now, in studies and basically getting my degrees because I was just curious. I had never been around Christians until I became a Christian and so I had a lot of catching up to do, as you can imagine."

1. From what we know, Dr. Caner's mother was Swedish. Someone has suggested she may have been adopted from Turkey. I've seen no evidence to support this. Furthermore, as we have illustrated in Caner's own words elsewhere, Caner's Swedish grandmother was active in his upbringing (link to comments).
   
   
2. Dr. Caner came to America, from the records we have, around 1969-70, as a toddler, not 1978 as a teenager.
   
   
3. Dr. Caner lost his father, which is a terrible loss. He did not, as far as we can tell, lose his mother and grandmother.
   
   
4. While I don't approve of serial polygamy, as far as we can tell Dr. Caner's father only had two wives, which would not qualify as "other wives."
   

Continuing on, Caner is presented with a question regarding the importance of anonymous Christians. As a part of his answer, Caner responds:

"In my case, it was a high school boy who was an AWANA RA/GA type kid. And was trying to earn a badge and for four years came after me. And for four years kept witnessing to me to become a believer in Jesus. And of course I dressed differently, I didn't look like anyone else, spoke differently, ate differently (I lived by halal and haram - you know the dietary restrictions). And so, a huge influence on me."

1. As far as we can tell, Caner converted not later than 1982, which would have been the first part of Caner's Junior year. So, that's less than three full years of high school in which Jerry Tackett could be influencing him.
   
   
2. As far as we can tell, Caner dressed like everyone else. Even if Caner dressed like a Turk, Turks typically do dress in "Western" clothes, so Caner's "look" would be expected to be similar to that of his classmates.

The final discussion I'd like to address comes from about 14 minutes in:

Lloyd: On a lighter note, I just happened to come accross that you were recently, in fact I saw the video, I believe it was you, that you were tased in a church service. What on Earth were you thinking, man!?

Caner: Every Wednesday night, here at Liberty, I do Campus Church. And its what we call "Church for the Rest of Us." It's volunteer service and six thousand kids. It's a grunge service. The music is industrial, more goth-oriented. I'm not in a suit. I'm not much of a suit person to begin with. But I'm not in a suit, its more of a --

Lloyd: Well, you don't have to wear one here.

Caner: Well good. Hallelujah. It's more like Diesel Jeans and Afflication Shirts, and a lot of tatted kids and pierced and etc. And I just had to have an illustration. And I decided that, you know, if I'm going to pick an illustration that's going to fit, the illustration was, small sins cause the biggest problems and the largest doors of God's blessings turn on these tiny little hinges. So, I showed them the tiny fish-hooks from the taser and then just said, "Why not? Let's do it."

Lloyd: (chuckling)

Caner: And 50,000 volts later- uh - I'll never do that again.

Lloyd: I was going to say. That's probably a one-in-a-lifetime thing. I had a little electric thing I got someone on. I got this big old cop and he was crying and whining, "uh whaddya do to me man - it's killing me - my mouth won't work" I can't imagine getting tased.

Caner: Oh, it was brutal, and I had to finish the sermon.

Lloyd: [3rd commandment violation removed]

Caner: My point is that not all sermons look the same, not all pastors look the same, not all preachers look the same, you know I've got a beard that's about a foot long, ZZ Top-ish. That's just because it's what works for me right now.

My response:

1. First of all, yes, he really had the ZZ Top-ish beard, see the videos linked-to below.
   
   
2. The tasing incident can be found on Youtube (far-away shot from audience right)(shot of screen at event)(close shot audience left)(close shot stage right - from front of Caner)(close shot stage left - from Caner's back) From a distance, it looks like he's getting tased, and the taser makes the distinctive buzzing noise. However, as can be seen from the two close shots, one of the barbs bounces harmlessly off Caner's back, thereby preventing the taser from actually shocking him (compare reported testimony of a cop regarding the function of a taser).

One of the reasons I posted this is because some people have suggested that Caner's apparent embellishments are simply an occasional misstatement given in the heat of the moment in the midst of a sermon, where the details of the testimony were not the issue. In this interview, Caner is plainly speaking cold. It's not "riled up" sermonizing, it's a calm interview without any live audience to stir up the emotions or confuse Caner's memory. This is not a "fog of war" scenario. Caner is asked to give his testimony up front, and he immediately provides a testimony that does not appear to square with the facts that have come to light. As the discussion continues, he continues to apparently misstate the facts in a way that appears designed to make him sound less like a nominal Muslim and more like a devout Muslim.

Finally, he seems to insist that he was really tased, although the video evidence appears to indicate that one of the leads didn't actually make a connection, which would have made it hard for the taser to actually deliver 50,000 volts. Getting jabbed by one of the barbs is doubtless not a fun experience, but Dr. Caner has the opportunity to say, "It wasn't actually as bad as it could have been," and instead says, "Oh, it was brutal, and I had to finish the sermon."

- TurretinFan