Eternal Fire and Sodom

John Gill in commenting on Jude 7, and the punishment of "πυρὸς αἰωνίου" (eternal fire) that came upon Sodom, mentioned Philo.  Philo, in his work, "On Abraham," comments on Sodom and its punishment, thus: 

XXVI(133) "The country of the Sodomites was a district of the land of Canaan, which the Syrians afterwards called Palestine, a country full of innumerable iniquities, and especially of gluttony and debauchery, and all the great and numerous pleasures of other kinds which have been built up by men as a fortress, on which account it had been already condemned by the Judge of the whole world. "

...

XXVII. (137) But God, having taken pity on mankind, as being a Saviour and full of love for mankind, increased, as far as possible, the natural desire of men and women for a connexion together, for the sake of producing children, and detesting the unnatural and unlawful commerce of the people of Sodom, he extinguished it, and destroyed those who were inclined to these things, and that not by any ordinary chastisement, but he inflicted on them an astonishing novelty, and unheard of rarity of vengeance; (138) for, on a sudden, he commanded the sky to become overclouded and to pour forth a mighty shower, not of rain but of fire; and as the flame poured down, with a resistless and unceasing violence, the fields were burnt up, and the meadows, and all the dense groves, and the thick marshes, and the impenetrable thickets; the plain too was consumed, and all the crop of wheat, and of everything else that was sown; and all the trees of the mountain district were burnt up, the trunks and the very roots being consumed. (139) And the folds for the cattle, and the houses of the men, and the walls, and all that was in any building, whether of private or public property, were all burnt. And in one day these populous cities became the tomb of their inhabitants, and the vast edifices of stone and timber became thin dust and ashes. (140) And when the flames had consumed everything that was visible and that existed on the face of the earth, they proceeded to burn even the earth itself, penetrating into its lowest recesses, and destroying all the vivifying powers which existed within it so as to produce a complete and everlasting barrenness, so that it should never again be able to bear fruit, or to put forth any verdure; and to this very day it is scorched up. For the fire of the lightning is what is most difficult to extinguish, and creeps on pervading everything, and smouldering. (141) And a most evident proof of this is to be found in what is seen to this day: for the smoke which is still emitted, and the sulphur which men dig up there, are a proof of the calamity which befell that country; while a most conspicuous proof of the ancient fertility of the land is left in one city, and in the land around it. For the city is very populous, and the land is fertile in grass and in corn, and in every kind of fruit, as a constant evidence of the punishment which was inflicted by the divine will on the rest of the country.

Even today, the "Ein Gedi hot springs" and "Ma'in Hot Springs" are near the Dead Sea.  I'm not sure whether Philo had in mind volcanic activity, or the steam of hot springs, or what exactly he had in mind, but his point is failure obvious: he believed that the fire that burned Sodom was still burning.  Given that Philo was roughly contemporaneous with Jude (probably 25 years older or so), it is not at all a stretch to assume that Jude was using the perceived endless burning of Sodom as an illustration of the punishment that awakes the wicked.

Affirmative Constructive Speech for Hell Debate with Eddie Crume

The orthodox doctrine of Hell is not fully captured by the Apostles' Creed, which speaks of the the judgment of the living and the dead, but nevertheless makes the short list of important doctrines in Hebrews 6. 

Hebrew 6:1-3

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

Hebrews delivers on this by mentioning the judgment at least twice:

Hebrews 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Hebrew 10:26-31

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

While the New Testament provides some of the clearest teachings on Hell, the judgment of Hell is not new to the New Testament:

Daniel 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

In the New Testament, we hear of Hell from Jesus' lips:

Matthew 25:46

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

We also hear of it from the lips of demons:

Matthew 8:29

And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

We also hear it in parables:

Matthew 18:34

And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

Luke 16:23

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

We see the torments of Hell depicted in the Apocalypse:

Revelation 14:11

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And we are told that the wicked will go to be punished with the devil:

Matthew 25:41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Even though the lake of fire is referred to as the "Second Death" the lake is the place where the wicked will have their place:

Revelation 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

In explaining the parable of the unjust steward, Jesus explicitly describes as eternal the habitations of those who serve unrighteous mammon. 

Luke 16:9

And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

This is a grievous doctrine to many folks.  They think it's somehow inappropriate for God to punish sin so harshly.  Thus, some latch on to passages that metaphorically describe the lost in inanimate terms:

Isaiah 66:24

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jesus alludes to this passage to describe Hell:

Mark 9:42-48

And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

As can be gleaned from this usage, the picture of fire and worms is one of suffering that people will endure, not a literal description of the situation.  Moreover, while destruction metaphors are one set of the descriptions of the afterlife, they are not the only one.

Hell is also described in terms of darkness:

Matthew 8:12

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The darkness is associated with both crying and with anger.   

Jude 12-13 describes some wicked people this way:

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

The apostle Peter describes them similarly:

2 Peter 2:17

These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

Finally, there are some who try to go the other way, and have everyone saved.

Hebrews explains that the time of salvation is limited:

Hebrews 4:6-7

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Moreover, the two-fold division of humanity is not only seen from the left-hand and right-hand or righteous and wicked distinctions but also from the Apostle's teaching:

Romans 9:22-24

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Thus, while there is a general resurrection coming, it has two categories:

John 5:29

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

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Endnotes:

Anathema 9 of the Emperor Justinian Against Origen at the Second Council of Constantinople (AD 553 - also known as the Fifth Ecumenical Council): If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration (ἀποκατάστασις) will take place of demons and of impious men, let him be anathema.

What are the Eternal Habitations of the Wicked?

Usually, I think of Matthew as the Gospel with the clearest presentation of Hell.  On the other hand, Luke contains at least one surprisingly explicit reference in addition to (and shortly before) the parable of the rich man and Lazarus:

Luke 16:9  And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

The phrase translated "that, when ye fail" is literally "that, when you've ceased" (ἵνα ὅταν ἐκλίπητε - hina otan eklipete).  The concept here is the death of the person. Hebrews 1:12 uses the word (negated, of course) to explain that God will never die.  

Standing alone, this phrase of the verse might seem to support annihilation.  If we are gone like the sun is gone from the sky during an eclipse, that sounds a bit like annihilation.   

What comes next, however, undermines annihilation.  These wicked people, when dead, have an everlasting habitation (τὰς αἰωνίους σκηνάς - tas aionious skinas).  These "tents" (σκηνάς) are eternal (αἰωνίους).

The unjust steward, accused of wasting his master's money, made his involuntary retirement plans by favoring the master's creditors with a debt reduction at his master's expense.  He wasn't going to be able to work as a steward ever again, but at least there would be people who were in his debt, who would take him into their homes and treat him as a friend.

In this he was at least consistent: he served money and he squandered money.  By contrast, we should serve God and take appropriate care of the good things He gives us.

Where will you be?  I would rather be a porter in God's house than dwelling in the tents of wickedness (Psalm 84:10). 

Jude 7, Sodom, and Eternal Fire

Some annihilationists see Jude 7's comment about Sodom and eternal fire as lending support to their view that the fire of the final judgment may be eternal, without the punishment lasting forever.

Jude 5-7 (KJV/NA28)

(5) I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. (6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

(5)Ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι, εἰδότας ὑμᾶς ἅπαξ πάντα ὅτι Ἰησοῦς λαὸν ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας τὸ δεύτερον τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν, (6)ἀγγέλους τε τοὺς μὴ τηρήσαντας τὴν ἑαυτῶν ἀρχὴν ἀλλ’ ἀπολιπόντας τὸ ἴδιον οἰκητήριον εἰς κρίσιν μεγάλης ἡμέρας δεσμοῖς ἀϊδίοις ὑπὸ ζόφον τετήρηκεν, 7ὡς Σόδομα καὶ Γόμορρα καὶ αἱ περὶ αὐτὰς πόλεις τὸν ὅμοιον τρόπον τούτοις ἐκπορνεύσασαι καὶ ἀπελθοῦσαι ὀπίσω σαρκὸς ἑτέρας, πρόκεινται δεῖγμα πυρὸς αἰωνίου δίκην ὑπέχουσαι.

The typical annihilationist argument is that the Sodom was completely consumed by the fire, and its punishment quickly ended, therefore "eternal fire" can just mean "fire from God, the Eternal."  Here a few rejoinders:

1) Even assuming that "eternal fire" just means "fire from God, the Eternal" in this passage would not imply a general rule that it always means that.

2) The same concept can be applied to fire, both that it is from God, the Eternal, and that duration of the fire will be long.  We see an example of that in Baruch 4:35 ("For fire shall come upon her from the Everlasting, long to endure; and she shall be inhabited of devils for a great time.") 

3) In context, the more natural understanding of "eternal" (αἰωνίου) is as conceptually parallel to "everlasting" (ἀϊδίοις).  In other words, just as the chains are everlasting so the fire is also eternal.

4) Jude's comments regarding "eternal fire" and "everlasting chains" as well as the reference to Sodom need to be understood within their historical context, namely the way that they would have been meant by Jude and understood by his initial audience.  

We know that Jude was familiar with intertestamental literature.  For example, Jude 14 quotes from 1 Enoch 1:9.  Furthermore, Jude 7 is quite similar to 3 Maccabees 2:5 ("You consumed with fire and sulphur the men of Sodom who acted arrogantly, who were notorious for their vices; and you made them an example to those who should come afterward.")

In those intertestamental works, there is a clear link between chains and fire.  For example, 1 Enoch 10:11-15:

And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. 

Notice the idea that of being chained down in the abyss of fire, being tormented in prison for ever.  One may be tempted to look at "to the end of all generations" as suggesting a final terminus of the destruction, but "to all generations" is essentially a Hebraism that means forever.  

Similarly, 1 Enoch 54:1-5:

And I looked and turned to another part of the earth, and saw there a deep valley with burning fire. And they brought the kings and the mighty, and began to cast them into this deep valley. And there mine eyes saw how they made these their instruments, iron chains of immeasurable weight. And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: ' For whom are these chains being prepared ' And he said unto me: ' These are being prepared for the hosts of Azazel, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded.

This is a picture of hell.

The author of 1 Enoch is not alone in picturing eternal conscious torment in the intertestamental period:

Judith 16:17 Woe to the nations that rise up against my kindred! the Lord Almighty will take vengeance of them in the day of judgment, in putting fire and worms in their flesh; and they shall feel them, and weep for ever.

(Compare Ecclesiasticus 7:17 Humble thyself greatly: for the vengeance of the ungodly is fire and worms.) All this is great, but what about the connection to Sodom?  As we mentioned above, the author of 3 Maccabees uses Sodom in a similar way as an example, namely a learning example.

The author of 2 Esdras has a similar use for Sodom, 2 Esdras 2:8-9

Woe be unto thee, Assur, thou that hidest the unrighteous in thee! O thou wicked people, remember what I did unto Sodom and Gomorrha; Whose land lieth in clods of pitch and heaps of ashes: even so also will I do unto them that hear me not, saith the Almighty Lord. 

The author of the Wisdom of Solomon, has a similar testimonial take, Wisdom 10:6-7

When the ungodly perished, she delivered the righteous man, who fled from the fire which fell down upon the five cities. Of whose wickedness even to this day the waste land that smoketh is a testimony, and plants bearing fruit that never come to ripeness: and a standing pillar of salt is a monument of an unbelieving soul.

The "she" there is Wisdom.  

Notice, however, that the author of Wisdom understands the fire at Sodom to still be burning.  It is not the land that "smoked" but the land that smokes.  The NETS version has: "a smoking waste still remains," which conveys the same point.  

It is not clear whether Jude had the concept of Sodom from the non-canonical book of Wisdom in mind or not.  What is clear, though, is that Jude likewise speaks of Sodom's burning as though it is ongoing: "are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire," not merely "were set forth as an example," nor "are set forth ... having suffered ...." 

5) Of course, we must not overlook the parallel context in 2 Peter 2:4-9 (KJV / NA28)

(4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; (6) And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; (7) And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (8) (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) (9) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

 (4)Εἰ γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ἀγγέλων ἁμαρτησάντων οὐκ ἐφείσατο ἀλλὰ σειραῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας παρέδωκεν εἰς κρίσιν τηρουμένους (5)καὶ ἀρχαίου κόσμου οὐκ ἐφείσατο ἀλλ’ ὄγδοον Νῶε δικαιοσύνης κήρυκα ἐφύλαξεν κατακλυσμὸν κόσμῳ ἀσεβῶν ἐπάξας (6)καὶ πόλεις Σοδόμων καὶ Γομόρρας τεφρώσας καταστροφῇ κατέκρινεν ὑπόδειγμα μελλόντων ἀσεβεῖν τεθεικὼς (7)καὶ δίκαιον Λὼτ καταπονούμενον ὑπὸ τῆς τῶν ἀθέσμων ἐν ἀσελγείᾳ ἀναστροφῆς ἐρρύσατο· (8)βλέμματι γὰρ καὶ ἀκοῇ ὁ δίκαιος ἐγκατοικῶν ἐν αὐτοῖς ἡμέραν ἐξ ἡμέρας ψυχὴν δικαίαν ἀνόμοις ἔργοις ἐβασάνιζεν· (9)οἶδεν κύριος εὐσεβεῖς ἐκ πειρασμοῦ ῥύεσθαι, ἀδίκους δὲ εἰς ἡμέραν κρίσεως κολαζομένους τηρεῖν,

The phrase "turning into ashes" is a single verb in Greek, apparently deriving from the noun "ash."  We might approximate it in English by "ash-ify" or or incinerate.  This is the only time the word is used in Scripture (even including the LXX), and there does not seem to be an abundance of Greek usage.  Cassius Dio (c. A.D. 155-235) uses it in Roman History 66:21 to describe the interior of the still-active crater of Mt. Vesuvius.  Obviously, 2 Peter was written well before that work.  I mention it merely as an example of ancient usage.

Whether it means that Sodom was burned down, covered in ash, etc. the interesting thing for our purposes is that Peter does not explicitly refer to fire, yet nevertheless similarly sees Sodom and Gomorrha as an example for those who come after (like Jude and the author of 3 Maccabees). 

In Peter's usage, the participle is an aorist participle, rather than a present participle. I think the translators used an English present participle because the time is understood from "condemned" in the main verb of the phrase.  So, Peter is focused on the past action, as distinct from Jude who mentions an ongoing situation.

There are other contrasts between Peter and Jude.  Peter mentions the fallen angels, the world in Noah's day, and the destruction of Sodom, whereas Jude mentions the Exodus, the fallen angels, and the destruction of Sodom.  Peter brings out the difference between the Lord's salvation of the righteous and Lord's destruction of the wicked.  Jude is more focused on the destruction of those once favored by God.  Thus, Jude does not mention Lot, while Peter spends several verses on him.

6) Internal parallel considerations are perhaps the final point to consider.  As noted above, there is a parallel between the chained angels and the men of Sodom.  In this context, the "eternal fire" may refer to the fire presently tormenting the men of Sodom in hell.  

Matthew, quoting Jesus, uses everlasting fire (Matthew 18:8 and 25:41) in a way that unambiguously refers to punishments received after death.  Moreover, these are the only other two scriptural uses of the phrase in the New Testament.  Given the parallel to the bound fallen angels, the "eternal fire" reference may be to the present day suffering of Sodom.

In favor of this interpretation is the fact that although Peter does not specifically mention it in 2 Peter, Peter had previously pointed out that those who died in the flood were presently in Tartarus (1 Peter 3:19).  Thus, Peter's mention of the ash-ify-ing of Sodom may be understood as the way that its residents were moved on to the afterlife, just as bringing in the flood did for those of Noah's day, and the casting down of the fallen angels did to them.  By contrast, Jude does not mention the angels being cast down, just that they left their habitation, with the focus being on their current state.  Likewise, Jude focuses on the fact that the Israelites were destroyed, without dwelling on the various means by which God accomplished that.

7) In conclusion, the easiest harmony that combines the above is that Sodom was (at least literarily, if not literally) smoking in Jude's day, but that Jude probably had in mind more than just the literal ongoing fires in the tar pits in the valley of Siddim (assuming there were such fires), but their ongoing eternal punishment in hell.

Rebuttals to C. Jay Cox's Seven Arguments for Annihilationism

C. Jay Cox has seven arguments for annihilationism.  In the following discussion, I respond to and rebut each of them, in advance of a debate he and I have planned.  His points are listed as "CJ" and mine as "TF."  This is not an attempt to replace the debate, but rather, hopefully, to improve the quality of the debate.  

CJ1. The Doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment Implies "Sadism" which is Contrary to God's Nature

CJ typically argues this point from verses that talk about God desiring all to come to salvation or not taking any pleasure in the death of the wicked.

TF1A:

One flaw with this argument is the assumption that inflicting pain on others is sadism. Other motives can include a motive to help the person (as in the case of surgeons and dentists) or even apathy (as in the case of narcissists). It's simply assuming the worse of God to assume that God's motive for Hell is sadism.  God's self-motivation is, at least, his own glory.

TF1B:

Another flaw is that CJ has to admit that Scripture itself portrays God as tormenting the devil (and the beast and the false prophet) forever:

Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

In the past, CJ has expressed some uncertainty about the interpretation of this verse.  Nevertheless, even if CJ were to deny the most straightforward meaning of the text and claim that this was just a metaphor, still this is a description of God's actions that God applies to Himself.

Furthermore, recall that the damned are sent to receive the same punishment as the devil:

Matthew 25:41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

That is a punishment of everlasting fire.  The only obvious reason that the fire is described as "everlasting" is that it will continue doing what it does forever.

TF1C:

Furthermore, while God is not sadistic, CJ must have misunderstood the passages he quoted, because God describes himself not as apathetic about punishing the wicked, nor as saddened by his task, but this way:

Psalm 2:4

He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

Psalm 37:13

The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.

Psalm 59:8

But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.

Proverbs 1:26

I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

Likewise:

Rom 9:22

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Hebrews 10:30-31

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

CJ2: Eternal Punishment for Temporal Sins is Unfair but God is Fair

CJ typically appeals to the Lex Taliones or the like

TF2A: See TF1A above, as Scripture says God will punish the devil eternally.

TF2B:  The Lex Taliones is a civil law for crimes by humans against humans.  There are other punishments in the civil law of Moses including the death penalty for proselytizing false religions, engaging in witchcraft, or violating the sabbath.  So, while the punishments are just, they are not always of the same kind as the crime, as in the Lex Taliones.  Also, the punishments for crimes against God are much more severe than against humans.  You aren't punished under the law of Moses for crimes against humans unless you cause an injury.  You cannot injure God, but you are still punished for crimes against God.

TF2C: Sins against humans are serious, but sins against God are much more severe, because they are an offense to the dignity of the eternal God.  No temporal punishment is sufficient to pay one's debt.

TF2D: Even if one could pay the debt of punishment by a period of time in hell, Scripture does not suggest that the lost ever become holy.  Thus, we have every expectation that the wicked will continue to sin in Hell.

Ecclesiastes 11:3

If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be.

Jeremiah 13:23

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Matthew 25:30

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 16:8-11

And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.  And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, and blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

CJ3: Eternal Life is the Opposite of Death

TF3A: The Scriptures contrast "eternal life" with a variety of expressions including those that suggest some kind of death ("perish" in John 3:15; "lose it" (namely life) in John 12:25; and "death" in Romans 6:23) but Scripture also contrasts eternal life with "everlasting fire" Matthew 18:8, with "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46, with "corruption" in Galatians 6:8, and with "shame and everlasting contempt" in Daniel 12:1, as well as abiding under God's wrath in John 3:36 and thirsting in John 4:14.  Furthermore, Revelation makes it clear that the lake of fire is the second death (Revelation 21:8).

TF3B: Additionally, the Scriptures explain that Eternal Life is something we have now, not only in the future, and that it is union with Christ.  

1 John 5:11

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

John 17:3

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

TF3C: Further to TF3B, this is why the second death is described in terms of separation from God:

2 Thessalonians 1:9

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

And contrast:

Jude 24

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

TF3D: Further to TF3D this was pictured for us in the Old Testament in multiple cases where sin is not permitted in the presence of God:

Genesis 3:8

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Genesis 4:16

And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Jonah 1:10

Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.

Leviticus 22:3

Say unto them, Whosoever he be of all your seed among your generations, that goeth unto the holy things, which the children of Israel hallow unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, that soul shall be cut off from my presence: I am the LORD.

Jeremiah 52:3

For through the anger of the LORD it came to pass in Jerusalem and Judah, till he had cast them out from his presence, that Zedekiah rebelled against the king of Babylon.

TF3E: Also, the death and life contrast applies to the present state:

John 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

CJ4: 4. Hell is Constantly Described as a Fire as Burning Up of Chaff, Trash, and Human Sacrifices (Gahenna is reference to this)

TF4A: There are multiple illustrations of hell and of God's wrath.  Fire is one of the illustrations.

TF4B: Even when fire is mentioned, burning up is not the constant point.  Compare Revelation 20:10, quoted above.

TF4C: There are other, fundamentally different, illustrations, such as everlasting chains or chains of darkness (Jude 6, 2 Peter 2:4) and darkness (Job 10:22; Proverbs 20:20) mist of darkness (2 Peter 2:17) blackness of darkness (Jude 13) or outer darkness (Matthew 8:12; Matthew 22:13; Matthew 25:13).

Ecclesiastes 11:8

But if a man live many years, and rejoice in them all; yet let him remember the days of darkness; for they shall be many. All that cometh is vanity.

CJ5: This Fire is the Second Death, a Literal Death (as opposed to Eternal Life)

TF5: The lake of fire is something capable of torturing the devil and his angels, which are spirits.  Moreover, it's not just that the wicked are thrown in, they have a place there.  The lake of fire is the second death.  Yet the punishment is also darkness.  That's because both darkness and fire are both symbols of suffering due to pain and fear, see Revelation 16:8-11 above.

CJ6: Wicked are constantly described as Perishing, Dying, Being Destroyed, Being given to Destruction

TF6: There are definitely those descriptions, but since there are other descriptions (see above), they must be harmonized.  Notice, for example, that the beast and false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire.

Revelation 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Likewise, Korah is described as going down to the abyss alive:

Numbers 16:33

They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.

Likewise, the grave is described as a prison:

Job 17:16

They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in the dust.

It's a prison that will not hold believers:

Matthew 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

CJ7: Hades is a place of torment but is Destroyed

TF7A: The verse in mind is this:

Revelation 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

TF7B: In context, death and hell are symbols of the places of the lost, since the lost were "in them":

Revelation 20:13

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Indeed, these are places to which there are keys:

Revelation 1:18

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

It is true that they are also personified in chapter 6, but there is no reason to treat Revelation 20:14 as referring to those personifications rather than the places of Revelation 20:13.

Revelation 6:8

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

TF7C: Keep in mind that death and hell (as places) are essentially synonymous in Hebrew thought, see 2 Samuel 22:6, Psalm 18:5, Psalm 55:15, Psalm 116:3, Proverbs 5:5, Proverbs 7:27, and Habakkuk 2:5. Similarly, there is fascinating passage in which they are both places and seemingly personified in Isaiah 28:15 and 18.

-TurretinFan

Ignatius an Annhiliationist?

 In a recent video, Chris Date (CD) claims that Ignatius of Antioch was an annihilationist (link).  CD generally uses the term "conditional immortality" to describe his position.  

Before getting into a discussion of Ignatius himself, CD includes the bizarre claim that Tatian of Adiabene (c. 120-180) is the "oldest Christian advocate of eternal torment" (30:45 in video) Not only do we see such teachings in 1 Clement (which CD disputes as we analyze here), Polycarp (which CD also disputes as we analyze here), and Ignatius of Antioch (as discussed below) but even more clearly in others, such as Justin Martyr.

Justin Martyr (c. 100-165), First Apology, Chapter 52: "For the prophets have proclaimed two advents of His: the one, that which is already past, when He came as a dishonoured and suffering Man; but the second, when, according to prophecy, He shall come from heaven with glory, accompanied by His angelic host, when also He shall raise the bodies of all men who have lived, and shall clothe those of the worthy with immortality, and shall send those of the wicked, endued with eternal sensibility, into everlasting fire with the wicked devils." (link)  CDlater weakly concedes (around 43:10 in the video) that Justin Martyr seems in some places to be ECT and in some places annihilationist.  Nevertheless, the quotation above is an extremely clear statement of eternal conscious torment.  I suspect, and perhaps we'll be able to investigate this more another time, that the problem is CD's optimistically annihilationist hermeneutic of the early Christian writers.  

CD finally begins to discuss Ignatius' teaching around 47 minutes into the video (link to point). CD states that he's going to be working from what he refers to as the "middle recension" of Ignatius.  There is actually remaining debate over what exactly the original text of Ignatius is, and where there are differences amongst the recensions, relying on a variant reading is a tricky matter.

The first piece of evidence that CD points to is actually evidence in support of eternal conscious torment.  Ignatius' Epistle to the Ephesians, Chapter 16, states, "If, then, those who do this as respects the flesh have suffered death, how much more shall this be the case with any one who corrupts by wicked doctrine the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified! Such an one becoming defiled [in this way], shall go away into everlasting fire, and so shall every one that hearkens unto him."  The longer recension is somewhat different on this point, reading: "And if those that corrupt mere human families are condemned to death, how much more shall those suffer everlasting punishment who endeavour to corrupt the Church of Christ, for which the Lord Jesus, the only-begotten Son of God, endured the cross, and submitted to death!"  The difference in meaning is not significant if Ignatius held to ECT, and indeed the reference to "everlasting fire" is a reference to ECT. The only reason to read it otherwise is based on hoping that Ignatius is just using Biblical language and that the annihilationist interpretation of everlasting fire is correct.   There is, quite frankly, no sound reason to think this.  We can and will discuss the annihilationist interpretation of everlasting fire, but for now suffice to say that this is an example of Ignatius affirming the eternal torment view.

The second piece of evidence that CD points to is Ignatius' Epistle to the Magnesians, Chapter 5.  There, Ignatius writes, "Seeing, then, all things have an end, these two things are simultaneously set before us—death and life; and every one shall go unto his own place." (shorter recension)  The longer recension is more expansive but has the same core: "Seeing, then, all things have an end, and there is set before us life upon our observance [of God’s precepts], but death as the result of disobedience, and every one, according to the choice he makes, shall go to his own place, let us flee from death, and make choice of life." (longer recension).

I should be quick to point out that "go to his own place" points to death not simply as a biological state, but rather to a place.  This view is, naturally, more compatible with the ECT view than its annihilationist alternative.

CD argues that Ignatius "consistently" uses death to mean simply biological death.  CD is wrong about that.  For example, Ignatius uses "death" to refer to spiritual death in his Epistle to the Trallians, Chapter 11: "Flee, therefore, those evil offshoots [of Satan], which produce death-bearing fruit, whereof if any one tastes, he instantly dies." (shorter) "Avoid also the children of the evil one, Theodotus and Cleobulus, who produce death-bearing fruit, whereof if any one tastes, he instantly dies, and that not a mere temporary death, but one that shall endure for ever." (longer)

Notice, by the way, that the editor who produced the longer recension affirmed everlasting punishment (as pointed out above), so the editor that says "death ... that shall endure forever" is referring to ECT.  This should be basically an aside, since the longer recension is presumably not the original.

It is a bit vexing to deal with this issue of CD claiming something is used consistently one way, presenting evidence to allegedly support that claim, and then it turning out that CD has not included the counter-evidence. 

CD even points to Ignatius' Epistle to the Smyrnaeans Chapter 2, which states: "And He suffered truly, even as also He truly raised up Himself, not, as certain unbelievers maintain, that He only seemed to suffer, as they themselves only seem to be [Christians]. And as they believe, so shall it happen unto them, when they shall be divested of their bodies, and be mere evil spirits." (shorter) The longer recension doesn't discuss this divestment of bodies.

I really cannot approve of CD's excerpting of "and be mere evil spirits" in his effort to make Ignatius look more like an annihilationist than Ignatius was.

Moreover, CD refers the reader to Igantius' Epistle to the Smyrnaeans Chapter 5, which states: "But he who does not acknowledge this, has in fact altogether denied Him, being enveloped in death." (shorter - longer is essentially the same on this point)  Note that being enveloped with death once again cannot refer to biological death, because it is that they area already experiencing.

CD then points to Smyrnaeans 7, which states: "Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again." (shorter) "They are ashamed of the cross; they mock at the passion; they make a jest of the resurrection." (longer) The textual variation seems markedly significant here.  Nevertheless, even assuming the shorter recension is accurate, the sense of "rise again" is probably best understood as "rise again with Christ" as opposed to being a claim that there is only a resurrection of the just.

CD next turns to Ignatius' Epistle to the Trallians, Chapter 2, where Ignatius states: "ye appear to me to live not after the manner of men, but according to Jesus Christ, who died for us, in order, by believing in His death, ye may escape from death." (shorter) "ye appear to me to live not after the manner of men, but according to Jesus Christ, who died for us, in order that, by believing in His death, ye may by baptism be made partakers of His resurrection." (longer)  I note that the longer seems to convey the sense meant by the shorter.  More pointedly, though, believers do not escape from just ordinary death in the sense of not experiencing ordinary death.  Instead, they escape from death by resurrection from the dead to eternal life.  I can appreciate why this statement, by itself, could be taken in an annihilationist sense, but it doesn't directly address the issue.

CD talks briefly about the sense of the word, life, namely that it is not necessarily a special technical term.  I suppose probably some people argue this, but since I don't, I'll pass this by, except in one particular.

On the second or third slide of his presentation about Ignatius' use of "life," CD comes to the place in Ignatius' Epistle to the Trallians, Chapter 9, where Ignatius states: "He was also truly raised from the dead, His Father quickening Him, even as after the same manner His Father will so raise up us who believe in Him by Christ Jesus, apart from whom we do not possess the true life." (shorter) (the longer has no equivalent statement)  Even setting aside the troubling textual variant issue, the statement "apart from whom we do not possess the true life" is a statement of the ECT position on what eternal life is, as distinct from the annihilationist/reductionist view that reduces life to biological life.

Likewise, in the keystone evidence that Chris presents, the off-quoted passage of Ignatius in Epistle to the Ephesians, Chapter 20: "breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but [which causes] that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ."  (Schaff only provides a single recension here, and I haven't taken the time to investigate which it is.) there is a similar expression of life that matters being life "in Jesus Christ."  CD seems to overlook this important qualifier.  CD claims that "life" and "dying" here have no special theological significance, but it should be obvious that Ignatius who longed for martyrdom did not think that the bread of the Eucharist would stop him from suffering martyrdom.  The idea that there is no special theological significance is totally unthinkable.

CD goes so far as to change Ignatius' words in the spoken part of the presentation, to go from "prevent us from dying" to "cures death and makes it possible for us to rise immortal."  That change in wording is significant to CD's claim that Ignatius' terms don't have special theological significance, but they are not the words that Ignatius used.  In point of fact, "prevent dying" means you don't die, whereas "cures death" means raises to life after you die.  Of course, Ignatius does affirm the resurrection of the believers, but one to a new life in union with Christ, which is what the ECT position teaches.

Clement and Eternal Conscious Torment

Chris Date (CD) has a video in which he claims that Clement of Rome held to "conditional immortality" (link - if you're interested to hear what he has to say about Clement of Rome, you can jump forward to timestamp 26:00 and listen to 44:09).  

First, note that we refer to the book we refer to as 1 Clement, a letter from the church at Rome to the church at Corinth, is traditionally identified as having been written by Clement of Rome, even though Clement may not have written the letter or may not have done so in an individual capacity.   The author of the book avoids using the first person to refer to himself, does not identify himself as Clement in the text of the work, and the letter begins, "The Church of God which sojourneth in Rome to the Church of God which sojourneth in Corinth...."  Likewise, the postscript of the letter asks that the messengers (who presumably carried the letter) be speedily returned to "us."  Although the author of 1 Clement is traditionally identified as Clement of Rome, I will refer to the author as "the author of 1 Clement." 

At least one other letter has been attributed to Clement of Rome (it's referred to as 2 Clement), but it is by another author.  The mid-second century author of that work does refer to "eternal punishment" (2 Clement 6:7), affirms that the dead will be judged (2 Clement 1:1), uses "death" to refer to something like spiritual death ("our whole life was nothing else but death" 2 Clement 1:6), suggests that the fire of the afterlife will have a hardening effect like fire has on clay with the effect of repentance being impossible there (2 Clement 8:1-3), and identifies the punishment of the damned with "grievous torments in unquenchable fire" (2 Clement 17:7) after quoting from Isaiah 66:24 (2 Clement 17:5).  Naturally, CD does not provide his detailed comments on this work, and he does not need to, since it is not the work of Clement of Rome.  I merely mention it as a minor aside against the false and ridiculous notion that the doctrine of eternal conscious torment should be associated with Augustine, centuries later despite being the understanding of Christians before then.

Returning to 1 Clement, the full text of the epistle in the original Greek and parallel English can be found at the following link (link to full text of 1 Clement).  

While Hell is not the central focus of the letter, the author of 1 Clement, does touch on the subject a little.

XI. Διὰ φιλοξενίαν καὶ εὐσέβειαν Λὼτ ἐσώθη ἐκ Σοδόμων, τῆς περιχώρου πάσης κριθείσης διὰ πυρὸς καὶ θείου, πρόδηλον ποιήσας ὁ δεσπότης ὅτι τοὺς ἐλπίζοντας ἐπ’ αὐτὸν οὐκ ἐγκαταλείπει, τοὺς δὲ ἑτεροκλινεῖς ὑπάρχοντας εἰς κόλασιν καὶ αἰκισμὸν τίθησιν. 2. Συνεξελθούσης γὰρ αὐτῷ τῆς γυναικὸς ἑτερογνώμονος ὑπαρχούσης καὶ οὐκ ἐν ὁμονοίᾳ, εἰς τοῦτο σημεῖον ἐτέθη, ὥστε γενέσθαι αὐτὴν στήλην ἁλὸς ἕως τῆς ἡμέρας ταύτης, εἰς τὸ γνωστὸν εἶναι πᾶσιν ὅτι οἱ δίψυχοι καὶ οἱ διστάζοντες περὶ τῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ δυνάμεως εἰς κρίμα καὶ εἰς σημείωσιν πάσαις ταῖς γενεαῖς γίνονται.

11. For his hospitality and godliness Lot was saved from Sodom, when all the country round about was judged by fire and brimstone; the Master having thus fore shown that He forsaketh not them which set their hope on Him, but appointeth unto punishment and torment them which swerve aside. [2.] For when his wife had gone forth with him, being otherwise minded and not in accord, she was appointed for a sign hereunto, so that she became a pillar of salt unto this day, that it might be known unto all men that they which are double-minded and they which doubt concerning the power of God are set for a judgment and for a token unto all the generations.

The author of 1 Clement argues that God has appointed unbelievers to "κόλασιν καὶ αἰκισμὸν" (punishment and torture).  Even if we were to accept annihilationist claims that kolasin can refer to a death penalty, as such (and that seems to be a stretch at best), aikismon is not similarly ambiguous: it means torture not death.  Moreover, the author of 1 Clement links these punishments and tortures with the fire and brimstone (πυρὸς καὶ θείου) that was put on Sodom.  

Furthermore, the author of 1 Clement suggests a perpetuity to the judgment by saying that the judgment will be "unto all generations" like Lot's wife who "unto this day" is a pillar of salt. 

Because CD has convinced himself to reduce the punishment of Sodom to annihilation, he fails to account for the "torment" aspect of the comment.  Indeed, eternal conscious torment fits much better both with "punishment" and "torment."  Likewise, while one can certainly appreciate that the memory of a death can serve as a reminder, the ongoing existence of Lot's wife as a pillar of salt suggests an emphasis on the damned continuing to exist in some form so that they serve a similar memorial function. 

What remains to be said?  The author of 1 Clement does not explicitly say that the torment will last forever.  So, if someone wants to claim that 1 Clement does not rule out the idea that the torment might end some day, I think it's fair to acknowledge that 1 Clement does not directly address this topic.

That said, because the author of 1 Clement focuses on the punishments and torture of the wicked, 1 Clement is not consistent with the annihilationist focus on cessation of being as the reward of the wicked.

CD argues from 1 Clement 9 that capital punishment (a term the author of 1 Clement never uses) awaits the wicked.  That section reads as follows:

IX. Διὸ ὑπακούσωμεν τῇ μεγαλοπρεπεῖ καὶ ἐνδόξῳ βουλήσει αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἱκέται γενόμενοι τοῦ ἐλέους καὶ τῆς χρηστότητος αὐτοῦ προσπέσωμεν καὶ ἐπιστρέψωμεν ἐπὶ τοὺς οἰκτιρμοὺς αὐτοῦ, ἀπολιπόντες τὴν ματαιοπονίαν τήν τε ἔριν καὶ τὸ εἰς θάνατον ἄγον ζῆλος. 2. Ἀτενίσωμεν εἰς τοὺς τελείως λειτουργήσαντας τῇ μεγαλοπρεπεῖ δόξῃ αὐτοῦ. 3. Λάβωμεν Ἐνώχ, ὃς ἐν ὑπακοῇ δίκαιος εὑρεθεὶς μετετέθη, καὶ οὐχ εὑρέθη αὐτοῦ θάνατος. 4. Νῶε πιστὸς εὑρεθεὶς διὰ τῆς λειτουργίας αὐτοῦ παλιγγενεσίαν κόσμῳ ἐκήρυξεν, καὶ διέσωσεν δι’ αὐτοῦ ὁ δεσπότης τὰ εἰσελθόντα ἐν ὁμονοίᾳ ζῷα εἰς τὴν κιβωτόν.

9. Wherefore let us be obedient unto His excellent and glorious will; and presenting ourselves as suppliants of His mercy and goodness, let us fall down before Him and betake ourselves unto His compassions, forsaking the vain toil and the strife and the jealousy which leadeth unto death. [2.] Let us fix our eyes on them that ministered perfectly unto His excellent glory. [3.] Let us set before us Enoch, who being found righteous in obedience was translated, and his death was not found. [4.] Noah, being found faithful, by his ministration preached regeneration unto the world, and through him the Master saved the living creatures that entered into the ark in concord.

CD is not wrong that the author of 1 Clement has in mind death as a consequence of sin.  However, the death that the author of 1 Clement uses as an illustration is the ordinary death that we all eventually face, and that even Noah himself eventually faced.  Thus, "capital punishment" as a description is a spin too far.

CD argues that the author of 1 Clement uses "death" in simply the ordinary way.  This is inaccurate.  First, the author of 1 Clement uses "death" in a way that also seems to refer to spiritual death in his quotation of "death into the world" (1 Clement 3).  Moreover, this usage is particularly relevant, because it links jealousy with death: "seeing that they have conceived an unrighteous and ungodly jealousy, through which also death entered into the world" (ζῆλον ἄδικον καὶ ἀσεβῆ ἀνειληφότας, δι’ οὗ καὶ «θάνατος εἰσῆλθεν εἰς τὸν κόσμον».  1 Clement 3)  This word for jealousy is, of course, the same Greek word used in 1 Clement 9.

Moreover, jealousy is what the author of 1 Clement identifies as a critical problem in Corinth.  Thus, jealousy is discussed in 1 Clement 3, and then repeatedly in 1 Clement 4, 5, and 6.  The author of 1 Clement comes back to jealousy in 1 Clement 9, 14, 43 and 45.  Finally, the author of 1 Clement brings up jealousy one last time in the conclusion at 1 Clement 63.

Perhaps even more significantly than the jealousy-death connection in general, the author of 1 Clement states at 1 Clement 4: "Jealousy caused Joseph to be persecuted even unto death, and to come even unto bondage." (Ζῆλος ἐποίησεν Ἰωσὴφ μέχρι θανάτου διωχθῆναι καὶ μέχρι δουλείας εἰσελθεῖν.)  

We know, and it seems fair to assume the author of 1 Clement knew, that Joseph was not literally persecuted to physical death, but instead to an imprisonment.  In case you are wondering, it's not because a different Greek word for death is used: it's the same Greek word for death.  

CD presents six other examples of this word use in the text, which falsely suggests that the author of 1 Clement only uses the word in one particular way. 

Moreover, the translation CD provided for 1 Clement 51 seems inaccurate and misleading in the context of our discussion.

LI. Ὅσα οὖν παρεπέσαμεν καὶ ἐποιήσαμεν διά τινας παρεμπτώσεις τοῦ ἀντικειμένου, ἀξιώσωμεν ἀφεθῆναι ἡμῖν· καὶ ἐκεῖνοι δέ, οἵτινες ἀρχηγοὶ στάσεως καὶ διχοστασίας ἐγενήθησαν, ὀφείλουσιν τὸ κοινὸν τῆς ἐλπίδος σκοπεῖν. 2. Οἱ γὰρ μετὰ φόβου καὶ ἀγάπης πολιτευόμενοι ἑαυτοὺς θέλουσιν μᾶλλον αἰκίαις περιπίπτειν ἢ τοὺς πλησίον· μᾶλλον δὲ ἑαυτῶν κατάγνωσιν φέρουσιν ἢ τῆς παραδεδομένης ἡμῖν καλῶς καὶ δικαίως ὁμοφωνίας. 3. Καλὸν γὰρ ἀνθρώπῳ ἐξομολογεῖσθαι περὶ τῶν παραπτωμάτων ἢ σκληρῦναι τὴν καρδίαν αὐτοῦ, καθὼς ἐσκληρύνθη ἡ καρδία τῶν στασιασάντων πρὸς τὸν θεράποντα τοῦ Θεοῦ Μωϋσῆν, ὧν τὸ κρίμα πρόδηλον ἐγενήθη. 4. «Κατέβησαν γὰρ εἰς ᾅδου ζῶντες», καὶ «θάνατος ποιμανεῖ αὐτούς». 5. Φαραὼ καὶ ἡ στρατιὰ αὐτοῦ καὶ πάντες οἱ ἡγούμενοι Αἰγύπτου, «τά τε ἅρματα καὶ οἱ ἀναβάται» αὐτῶν οὐ δι’ ἄλλην τινὰ αἰτίαν ἐβυθίσθησαν εἰς θάλασσαν ἐρυθρὰν καὶ ἀπώλοντο, ἀλλὰ διὰ τὸ σκληρυνθῆναι αὐτῶν τὰς ἀσυνέτους καρδίας μετὰ τὸ γενέσθαι τὰ σημεῖα καὶ τὰ τέρατα ἐν Αἰγύπτῳ διὰ τοῦ θεράποντος τοῦ Θεοῦ Μωϋσέως.

51. For all our transgressions which we have committed through any of the wiles of the adversary, let us entreat that we may obtain forgiveness. Yea and they also, who set themselves up as leaders of faction and division, ought to look to the common ground of hope. [2.] For such as walk in fear and love desire that they themselves should fall into suffering rather than their neighbors; and they pronounce condemnation against themselves rather than against the harmony which hath been handed down to us nobly and righteously. [3.] For it is good for a man to make confession of his trespasses rather than to harden his heart, as the heart of those was hardened who made sedition against Moses the servant of God; [4.] whose condemnation was clearly manifest, for they went down to hades alive, and Death shall be their shepherd. [5.] Pharaoh and his host and all the rulers of Egypt, their chariots and their horsemen, were overwhelmed in the depths of the Red Sea, and perished for none other reason but because their foolish hearts were hardened after that the signs and the wonders had been wrought in the land of Egypt by the hand of Moses the servant of God.

Rather than "death shall be their shepherd," CD provides "and death swallowed them up," and omits "alive" from "into hell."  When he mentions this same section a few minutes later, to claim that "alive" has a uniform meaning in 1 Clement, he asserts that they go there to die, which is not what the text says.  

The author of 1 Clement is referring the rebellion of Korah described in Numbers 16, and particularly quoting from Numbers 16:30, which says that "they go down quick (i.e. alive) into the pit (i.e. hell)" (LXX: καταβήσονται ζῶντες εἰς ᾅδου), and from Psalm 49:14 (LXX Psalm 48:15, θάνατος ποιμανεῖ αὐτούς - [NETS] death shall be their shepherd ), which is about the sons of Korah.

If anything, the judgment of Korah is suggestive of the eternal conscious torment view.  The shepherding of those in Hades by the personification of Death is one that treats the dead as, in some sense, alive.

I will point out that "Death shall feed upon them" is another interpretation of the underlying Psalm.  The difference is similar to the difference between feeding someone and feeding upon someone.  Nevertheless, I agree with Lightfoot's translation of 1 Clement, which agrees with the New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS) translation of Psalm 48:15. 

Regarding 1 Clement 11, CD argues that "torture" is not a good translation of aikismos, because aikismos can also just refer to "bad treatment." Even if aikismos can more broadly include other kinds of bad treatment, the context is the reason it gets translated as "torture" or the like.  Moreover, if the meaning is even softer than "torture," this would only further undermine, not support, the denial that the author of 1 Clement held the eternal conscious torment view.  In any event, I disagree with CD's criticism of the translation.

I don't know of anyone who has translated it merely "bad treatment." Instead, here are some of the translations in addition to Lightfoot's translation (1869).

• William Burton (1647) translated: "punishment and plagues" (link at XIV in Burton's sectioning of the text)
• William Wake (1719) translated: "punishment and correction" (link) 
• Temple Chevallier (1833) translated: "punishment and correction" (link)
• John Keith (1897) included in Schaff's edition: "punishment and torture" (link)
• Kevin Edgecomb (2006) translated: "punishment and torments" (link)
• Adolf von Harnack (English ed. and trans. Jacob Cerone) (2021) translated: "punishment and torment" (p. 15)

Incidentally, I criticize the translation 1 Clement 51 that CD provided, but I don't know what translation CD is using.  I think the original language text of the epistle does not support his reading, though, regardless of his translation choice.

CD makes an argument that because the author of 1 Clement sees immortality and life as a gift from God for the righteous, that this implies that he does not think that the wicked will live forever in hell.  This is one of what I would refer to as the fundamental errors of CD's method of argumentation.  He provides a reductionist interpretation of life and death, and then imposes that interpretation onto certain texts.

CD argues that the author of 1 Clement takes the position that only believers will be resurrected.  On the other hand, this would not make a 1 Clement a holder of the conditional immortality position for which CD usually advocates, since that position affirms a general resurrection.  More bluntly, this reductionism misses the fact that for 1 Clement the resurrection that matters is the resurrection to life, not the resurrection to torment.

Moreover, 1 Clement's way of considering life, death, and resurrection does not follow CD's reductionism, as evidenced by 1 Clement 24, where the resurrection is compared to our daily sleeping and waking and to the growth cycle of plants.  Further evidence is provided in 1 Clement 25 where the author relates the myth of the Phoenix.  In the case of 1 Clement 24, the author of 1 Clement is following gospel metaphors for death, but - of course - these are metaphors.

I further criticism I have is that CD tends to spin 1 Clement and then treat the spin as though it was what 1 Clement says.  For example, around 39:00 to 39:15, CD repeatedly emphatically says that the author says "only ..." when, at most, CD would be justified in saying that the author of 1 Clement "only says" or "implies that only ...."  There are about 17 uses of "only" in the English of 1 Clement, the majority of those are "not only" and none of them is in the context of any of the above-discussed issues, except that the Phoenix is the "only one of its kind," despite its unusual 500 year cycle of life. 

According to CD, if Clement (and Ignatius) denied the general resurrection, they would still be "conditionalists" because of their denial of continued union of body and soul of the wicked.  This is because the "conditionalist" movement is being defined negatively, as a rejection of the eternal conscious torment position.

CD suggests to his listeners to claim that Clement and Ignatius are "indisputably conditionalists," which is a dramatic oversell of his conclusion.  We will address Ignatius in another post.  For now, suffice to say that there is no strong reason to deny that Clement held to the same view as the author of 2 Clement or other early Christian writers, who believed that what awaits the lost is an eternity of torment.

Polycarp and Eternal Torment

Chris Date has a video arguing for the idea that Polycarp of Smyrna held to conditional immortality (link to video).

CD's arguments hang on several points:

1) Ignatius writes to Polycarp that Polycarp views immortality and eternal life as being the prize set before him (Ignatius' Epistle to Polycarp, Chapter 2).  However, this would only be relevant to CD's contentions if eternal torment is rightly said to be immortality and eternal life.  CD tends to argue that eternal torment is (or at least would be if it happened) immortality and eternal life.

As a minor aside of interest probably only to me, I point out that the Epistle to Polycarp exists in a long recension and a short recension.  The wording that CD relies on includes a variant.  I don't think the variant directly or meaningfully affects his argument.  One recension describes immortality and eternal life as a prize and the other describes it as the will of God. 

2) The Martyrdom of Polycarp reports Polycarp as having said that resurrection, incorruption, and immortality will be his reward (Martyrdom of Polycarp, 14, 17, and 19)

While this is the case, the author of the Martyrdom of Polycarp argues that the martyrs did not flinch before the torments they were faced with, because they were set in contrast to eternal torments.  CD tries to argue that duration was not the contrast that the author of MoP had in mind, but the contrast between "eternal" and "single hour" is fairly straightforward.  Moreover, the contrast is between two different torments.  See Martyrdom of Polycarp, 2.

Moreover, CD's own position has to affirm that the damned are resurrected and that Polycarp believes that they will be.  After all Polycarp avers that Christ will come to judge not just the living but the dead:

Polycarp, Epistle to the Philippians, Chapter 2, (translation in Schaff) "He comes as the Judge of the living and the dead. [Acts 17:31] His blood will God require of those who do not believe in Him."

Lightfoot translation (link to translation): "who cometh as judge of quick and dead; whose blood God will require of them that are disobedient unto Him."

Now, "his blood God will require" seems to be a usage of the Hebraism originating at least as early as Genesis 9:5 (see also, Genesis 42:22, 2 Samuel 4:11, Ezekiel 3:17, 18, and 20, 33:6&8, Luke 11:50-51).  Contrary to CD's gloss, to "require his blood" does not necessarily mean to die a violent, bloody death.  It means to be held accountable for the blood that was shed.  It is interesting that Polycarp's letter uses this wording, as it relates to the doctrine of the atonement, but that's not a subject for this particular post.

I would echo CD's comments about the potential unreliability of the work, the Martyrdom of Polycarp.  Candida Moss's "The Myth of Persecution," mentions some of the issues associated with the work. 

3) Polycarp in his Epistle to the Philippians implies that only the righteous will be raised and live:

Polycarp, Epistle to the Philippians, Chapter 2, (translation in Schaff) "But He who raised Him up from the dead will raise us up also, if we do His will, and walk in His commandments, and love what He loved," 

Lightfoot translation (link to translation): "Now He that raised Him from the dead will raise us also; if we do His will and walk in His commandments and love the things which He loved," 

Polycarp, Epistle to the Philippians, Chapter 8, (translation in Schaff) "Let us then continually persevere in our hope, and the earnest of our righteousness, which is Jesus Christ, who bore our sins in His own body on the tree, [1 Peter 2:24] who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth, [1 Peter 2:22] but endured all things for us, that we might live in Him."

Lightfoot translation (link to translation): "Let us therefore without ceasing hold fast by our hope and by the earnest of our righteousness, which is Jesus Christ who took up our sins in His own body upon the tree, who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth, but for our sakes He endured all things, that we might live in Him."

Polycarp, Epistle to the Philippians, Chapter 1, (translation in Schaff) "our Lord Jesus Christ, who for our sins suffered even unto death, [but] whom God raised from the dead, having loosed the bands of the grave."

Lightfoot translation (link to translation): "our Lord Jesus Christ, who endured to face even death for our sins, whom God raised, having loosed the pangs of Hades;"

While this is certainly the case, the solution is not to insist that Polycarp means "it will be as if they hadn't been resurrected," but instead that Polycarp considers eternal punishment to be something other than the promised eternal life.

Just as Polycarp doesn't count the resurrection of damnation as the resurrection, so also Polycarp doesn't count eternal punishment as eternal life. The only people who seem to count it that way are opponents of eternal conscious torment.

What about Olam (עוֹלָם), Ad (עַד), and Nesah (נֶצַח)?

If you are going to consider the subject of the eternal torments of hell, you cannot limit yourself to the New Testament.  You also should not limit yourself to English, but should also consider the usual words translated as "eternal" or the like in the Old Testament text.

Olam, Ad, and Nesah

One fairly common (439 uses) word in the Old Testament is the masculine noun, Olam (עוֹלָם), which is usually translated ever, everlasting, old, perpetual, or evermore.  It is the word used to describe the effect of the tree of life in Genesis 3:22 ("live for ever").  It is also the word used to describe Jehovah as the "everlasting God" in Genesis 21:33 and the reign of God as being "for ever (עוֹלָם) and ever (עַד)" in Exodus 15:18.  It's a word that typically refers to a long duration.  So, even when it doesn't mean eternity, it means a long time (like the pre-flood "mighty men which were of old").  Sometimes olam is used in connection with an ordinance or law, such that it is designated a perpetual law.  Many times we are told (especially in Psalm 136) that God's mercy endures for ever. 

Ad (עַד) mentioned above in Exodus 15:18 is a less common word (49 uses) that has a similar sense of continuity.  Sometimes it's used as a poetic variety word choice, as in Habakkuk 3:6, where it is parallel to olam, or Amos 1:11 where it is parallel to nesah (נֶצַח), or as an emphatic, as in Genesis 3:22 and Micah 4:5 where it is piled onto olam ("for ever and ever").  

Nesah (נֶצַח) is used about as often (43 uses) as ad.  While it is often translated as "ever," the connotation is more forward looking, as to a distant goal.  In 1 Samuel 15:29 God is called the "Strength of Israel" using this word (נֵצַח יִשְׂרָאֵל) and this word translated as "Victory" is also treated as one of God's attributes, alongside greatness, power, and glory in 1 Chronicles 29:11.  

Some Key Verses 

There are a number of Old Testament verses that are key to any discussion about hell being a place of eternal torment.

Daniel's Two Resurrections

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life (לְחַיֵּי עוֹלָם), and some to shame and everlasting contempt (לַחֲרָפוֹת לְדִרְאוֹן עוֹלָֽם).

In this verse, Daniel is given a prophesy about the general resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.  The former are resurrected to everlasting life, whereas the latter are resurrected to everlasting shame/contempt.

Isaiah's Contrasting Destinations

Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation (תְּשׁוּעַת עוֹלָמִים): ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded (לֹא־תֵבֹשׁוּ וְלֹא־תִכָּלְמוּ) world without end (עַד־עוֹלְמֵי עַֽד).

Of course, there are two ways of looking at this promise in Isaiah 45:17.  One way is as a promise of endless (the use of "ad" twice and "olam" once is translated here as "world without end") protection from shame/confounding.  This may indeed be the best way.  The other way is as contrasting endless salvation with endless shame/confounding.  Even if the former way is correct, when you compare Isaiah 45:17 with Daniel 12:2 it becomes clear that Daniel is making a claim about perpetual shame.

Imprecatory Psalm  

Psalm 83:17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever (עֲדֵי־עַד); yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

In this psalm, Asaph prays for the wicked to be "confounded and troubled" "for ever" using an emphatic duplication of ad.  Does Asaph have in mind the punishments of hell or merely the temporal punishments of this life? Perhaps it is the latter.  Nevertheless, the perpetual administration of God's wrath on the wicked is the point being conveyed.

Unquenchable Fire

Isaiah 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day (לַיְלָה וְיוֹמָם); the smoke thereof shall go up for ever (לְעוֹלָם): from generation to generation (מִדּוֹר לָדוֹר) it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever (לְנֵצַח נְצָחִים).

"Day and night" is a Hebrew way of saying "constantly" or "without interruption."  See, for example, Leviticus 8:35, Deuteronomy 28:66, Joshua 1:8, 1 Samuel 25:16, 1 Kings 8:59, 1 Chronicles 9:33, 2 Chronicles 6:20, Nehemiah 1:6 and 4:9, Psalms 1:2, 32:4, 42:3&8, 55:10, Isaiah 60:11, Jeremiah 9:1, 14:7, 16:13, 33:25(?), and Lamentations 2:18.  It's the same reason that Jesus three day and night burial does not mean 6 half days, but instead an uninterrupted period that starts on the first day and ends on the third day. 

The point about the fire not being quenched day or night is that there is no relief from the fire. It's not as though the fire burns for one hour and then there is a break.  No, the fire is continual.

The endless (olam) ascent of the smoke is not that the column of smoke is a really high column that never gets to the top of the atmosphere.  The endless ascent of the smoke is an indication that the fire continues forever.

The phrase "from generation to generation" (מִדּוֹר לָדוֹר)(midor lador) is another Hebrew idiom for "forever."  See, for example, Exodus 17:16, Isaiah 13:20, 34: 17, and 51:8, Jeremiah 50:39, Lamentations 5:19, Daniel 4:3 and 4:34, and Joel 3:20. Mary uses this same idiom (as translated into Greek) in Luke 1:50.  It's similar to the expression, "to all generations" (לְדֹר־וָדוֹר)(ledor vador) (Exodus 3:15 and numerous places in the Psalms).  Likewise, Mary uses this idiom (as translated into Greek) in Luke 1:48.

To "lie waste" here refers to the land being, in essence, desert - ruined, destroyed, or the like.

Finally, the duplication of nesah (forever and ever) is used to describe the fact that one one will pass through the land.  This seems to be connected to the idea that this a wasteland, as per the "lie waste." All the goodness of the land is gone.

Interestingly, though, this same verb, "to pass," is used like in English to refer to death.  When someone dies, we say they passed away. I'm reluctant to dogmatically insist that the sense of this verse is that no one will die.

Fire that Burns Forever

Jeremiah 17:4 And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever (עַד־עוֹלָם). 

This passage is not necessarily primarily about the fires of hell.  Nevertheless, this verse demonstrates that the idea of God's judgment wrath burning like a never-ending fire is one Old Testament picture of God.

Everlasting Reproach, Shame, and Confusion

Jeremiah 20:11 But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting confusion shall never be forgotten.

Jeremiah 23:40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

I mention these verses as examples of God's never-ending judgment including not only pictures of physical suffering (like that caused by fire) but also of mental anguish (reproach, shame, and confusion).  Hence the weeping/wailing and gnashing of teeth that Matthew mentions (link to post) or the darkness (fear) and furnace (pain) metaphors Matthew employs. 

Psalm 9:5 Thou hast rebuked (גָּעַרְתָּ) the heathen, thou hast destroyed (אִבַּדְתָּ) the wicked, thou hast put out (מָחִיתָ) their name for ever and ever (לְעוֹלָם וָעֶֽד).

The heathen and wicked are the same group in mind, and rebuking them should be taken as something more akin to cursing them as opposed to just offering constructive criticism.  Destroying them uses the word, abad, which we have seen above.  The putting out their name here refers to something like blotting out or erasing their name. There is a similar expression in Deuteronomy 9:14, Deuteronomy 29:20, and 2 Kings 14:27.  The 2 Kings reference refers to the LORD contrasting such a judgment with salvation.  The Deuteronomy passages provide interesting parallels.  Deuteronomy 9:14 says, "Let me alone, that I may destroy them (וְאַשְׁמִידֵם), and blot out (וְאֶמְחֶה) their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they."  Here the parallel word, a form of samad, is a very strong term for destruction. Similarly, Deuteronomy 29:20 states, "The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out (וּמָחָה) his name from under heaven."  Notice that here the cursing is explicit and God's negative disposition is described as "smoking."  

While the putting out of their names could have various senses, it seems to have at least a negative psychological connotation, namely a reputational loss. 

Psalm 78:66 And he smote his enemies in the hinder parts: he put them to a perpetual (עוֹלָם) reproach (חֶרְפַּת).

The hinder parts would be the rear ends of the enemies.  Children get smitten there when they disobey their parents.  Part of the punishment of God's enemies is the shame of being punished by God.  The humiliation is part of the punishment.  

Destroyed Forever  / Perish Forever

Psalm 92:7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed (לְהִשָּֽׁמְדָם) for ever (עֲדֵי־עַֽד): 

There are cases where the Old Testament uses "for ever" in the context of destruction, in a way that when taken in isolation may sound a bit like annihilation.  Everlasting destruction can have a very different connotation from everlasting punishment.  So, it's easy to understand how this verse could be interpreted as though the wicked will be permanently destroyed, if it were taken alone.

Job 4:20 They are destroyed (יֻכַּתּוּ) from morning to evening (מִבֹּקֶר לָעֶרֶב): they perish (יֹאבֵֽדוּ) for ever (לָנֶצַח) without any regarding it.

From morning to evening is another Hebrew way of saying "continuously" (Exodus 18:13, Exodus 27:21, and Acts 28:23).  The first word translated "destroyed" (katat) here has the sense of receiving a beating or smashing.  Thus, this is more of a picture of continually being struck.  

The word for "perish" here (abad) implies death and seems to literally come from the sense of wandering away or being lost in that sense.

The best way of understanding this verse, however, is that the being destroyed and perishing are characteristics of humanity as such, and not about individuals.  The point of the text is about how the human race is continually dying off.

Job 20:7 Yet he shall perish (יֹאבֵד) for ever (לָנֶצַח) like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?

The comparison here is interesting. Dung is (generally speaking) something which we make sure goes away, never to be seen by us again.  The point is not just that the wicked will get temporarily misplaced but that he will be gone (abad) and not be coming back.  By itself, this verse might seem to suggest that the wicked will not be resurrected.  Nevertheless, we know from other Scripture that the death of the wicked is their end in this life only, but that they will face eternal judgment in the next life.

Numbers 24:20 And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish (אֹבֵֽד) for ever (עֲדֵי). 

Numbers 24:24 And ships shall come from the coast of Chittim, and shall afflict Asshur, and shall afflict Eber, and he also shall perish (אֹבֵֽד) for ever (עֲדֵי).

Once again, the word for "perish" here is abad.   The thing being discussed is the personification of Amalek.  In the case of Amalek (as a nation), one can say that it was annihilated.  You may recall that a significant destruction of the Amalekites came under Saul (whose failure to completely destroy them cost his family the kingdom) and then a further destruction of the Amalekites came under David (who killed all but 400 of them) and then the final destruction of the Amalekites came under Hezekiah.  The verses don't have much to do with our subject, but I've included them anyway just for the sake of completeness.

Poetic Uses

Psalm 143:3  For the enemy hath persecuted my soul; he hath smitten my life down to the ground; he hath made me to dwell in darkness, as those that have been long (עוֹלָֽם) dead.

To dwell in darkness is here demonstrated to refer to those who have been dead for a while, as distinct from those recently deceased. It provides contrast to the beauty of Isaiah 9:2,  "The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined."

Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever (לְעוֹלָם):  yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

I find this fascinating.  Obviously, Jonah does not mean he literally was underground nor that he was literally there forever.  Moreover, we know from the New Testament that the sign of Jonah was a sign of Jesus Christ.  So, it is interesting to reflect on the sense in which Jonah's death forever under the earth, kept in by the bars of the earth (Hell's gates), was something that Christ experienced for us.

Gnashing (Brygmos βρυγμός) of Teeth

Amongst the various descriptions of suffering in hell, one notable description is the gnashing of teeth.  In the New Testament, Matthew provides this description six times, and Luke just once.  While we use a gerund, the Greek is usually a noun, Brygmos.

Matthew 8:12  But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing (βρυγμὸς) of teeth.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing (βρυγμὸς) of teeth.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing (βρυγμὸς) of teeth.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing (βρυγμὸς) of teeth.

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing (βρυγμὸς) of teeth.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing (βρυγμὸς) of teeth.

Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing (βρυγμὸς) of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

There is one Septuagint use of the term, in a passages that is wrath-related but probably not particularly relevant:

Proverbs 19:12 The king's wrath is as the roaring of a lion (βρυγμῷ λέοντος); but his favour is as dew upon the grass.  (Cf. Proverbs 20:2 and see the discussion below)

Aside from the Lex Taliones, Matthew only references teeth in connection with them being gnashed in suffering.  While Mark does not speak of the Brygmos of teeth, Mark similarly describes of a demonic gnashing (τρίζει) his teeth in Mark's only mention of teeth (Mark 9:18).  Teeth show up for the last time in the NT in them mouths of the locusts from hell (Revelation 9:8).

The corresponding verb Brycho (βρύχω) is used once in Acts and a number of times in the Septuagint, in a similar way.

Acts 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed (ἔβρυχον) on him with their teeth.

Job 16:9  He teareth me in his wrath, who hateth me: he gnasheth (ἔβρυξεν) upon me with his teeth; mine enemy sharpeneth his eyes upon me.

Psalm 35:16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed (ἔβρυξαν) upon me with their teeth.

Psalm 37:12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth (βρύξει) upon him with his teeth.

Psalm 112:10 The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash (βρύξει) with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.

Lamentations 2:16 All thine enemies have opened their mouth against thee: they hiss and gnash (ἔβρυξαν) the teeth: they say, We have swallowed her up: certainly this is the day that we looked for; we have found, we have seen it.

Except for Proverbs 19:12, the OT examples of gnashing are some form of haraq (חָרַק).  Proverbs 19:12 uses naham (נַהַם), which means something like "roar,"  While this may seem unrelated, the related word (nāham) can refer both to the roarings/growlings of wild animals and also to the groanings of those suffering.  Ultimately, though, the point is fundamentally the same.  It is a sense of anguish and frustration.

Matthew associates this gnashing of teeth with:

• Outer Darkness (Matthew 8:12, 22:13, 25:30)
• Furnace of Fire (Matthew 13:42&50)

This may seem paradoxical as fire produces light, not darkness.  Nevertheless, when one remembers that the darkness and fire here are images to represent an underlying idea, and not the thing itself, darkness is a source of fear (mental anguish) and fire is a source of pain (physical anguish).

Moreover, notice the connection between Luke 13:28 about seeing Abraham and all the prophets and the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (e.g. Luke 16:23), in which the Rich Man sees Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham.  This emphasizes that the punishment of the wicked will include a consciousness of their own relative misery set in contrast to the blessedness of the believers.

What about Apollymi?

Sometimes a person who is an annihilationist will argue as follows (Please note that I'm not endorsing any aspect of this representation except the spelling of the lexical form of the Greek word):

1) The most common description of the fate of the wicked is that are destroyed, using the verb, ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi or apollymi).

2) The verb ἀπόλλυμι is the same verb used by certain apparently annihilationist Greeks to describe their own view, as well as by Athenagoras to describe a view he rejects in favor of the eternal conscious torment view.  

3) Therefore, an annihilationist understanding of "perish" should be understood as the meaning of ἀπόλλυμι in passages that speak of the fate of the wicked.

I answer:

A) Reading minority Greek views of the afterlife into New Testament usage is a terrible, terrible hermeneutic.  While the New Testament uses Greek, and while Hellenistic views are part of the cultural background of the New Testament, the "mainstream" Greek view of the afterlife was not annihilation, but continued conscious existence as a disembodied spirit in a place of the dead.  So, it makes little sense to apply the seemingly minority views of certain Greek philosophers.

B) We cannot simply adopt the dominant Greek understanding of the afterlife.  After all, Paul consciously rejects the Greek view by teaching a resurrection from the dead, which the Greeks rejected as foolish (see Paul's message on Mar's Hill, Acts 17). So, just because Greek mythology regarding the afterlife is anti-annihilationist, is in itself insufficient to resolve the question. 

C)  There is no undisputed New Testament usage where the verb ἀπόλλυμι refers to annihilation of body and soul. While this may seem like a trivial point, it distinguishes this discussion from cases where a word has an undisputed meaning in other parts of the New Testament.  In this case, however, the annihilationist meaning is never the undisputed meaning.  

D) In the places where the meaning of the verb ἀπόλλυμι is undisputed, it has a semantic range similar to the English word, "lost."  The meaning is very context dependent.  If a ship is lost at sea, we never see it again.  If you get lost driving to Grandma's house, you arrive an hour late.  If a sheep is lost, a shepherd goes and finds it.  If soldiers are lost in battle, a funeral is appropriate. Similarly, as shown below, while the word usually just means to kill a person, there is a wide range of meanings.

E) In at least one relatively undisputed place, the meaning of  the verb ἀπόλλυμι referring to a human loss of life cannot be interpreted in annihilationist sense: "He that findeth his life shall lose it (the disputed use; cf. John 12:25): and he that loseth (the undisputed use) his life for my sake shall find it." (Matthew 10:39; and the same again in Matthew 16:25; Mark 8:35; Luke 9:24-25)  The undisputed use here does not refer to annihilation, but simply death from which the person is resurrected.  

F) The verb ἀπόλλυμι in some form occurs about 92 times in about 86 verses in the NT, and about 271 times in about 263 verses in the canonical books of the Septuagint. The following surveys the NT use.

Most often the meaning is something like "kill" or "die":

- Matthew 2:13 Herod wants to kill the young child

- Matthew 8:25 (Mark 4:38; Luke 8:24) The disciples woke up Jesus because they thought they would die in the storm

- Matthew 10:39 (as mentioned above and similarly Matt. 16:25; Mark 8:35; Luke 9:24; Luke 17:33) speaks about people being martyred for Christ

- Matthew 12:14 (Mark 3:6; Mark 11:18; Luke 19:47) Jewish leaders plot to kill Christ

- Matthew 21:41 (Mark 12:8; Luke 20:16) Master of the garden will kill the wicked husbandmen

- Matthew 22:7 King killed the murderers

- Matthew 26:52 Sword will kill those who use it

- Matthew 27:20 Jews ask Romans to kill Jesus

- Mark 9:22 Devil tried to kill possessed man by quasi-suicide

- Luke 6:9 Killing on the sabbath

- Luke 9:56 Jesus didn't come to kill people

- Luke 11:51 Zacharias was martyred

- Luke 13:33 Jesus must die at Jerusalem

- Luke 15:17, 24, and 32 Prodigal son was dying of starvation and was presumed dead

- Luke 17:27 (2 Peter 3:6) Flood killed everyone except Noah and his family

- Luke  17:29 Fire from heaven killed those of Sodom 

- John 11:50 better to prevent the whole nation from dying

- John 18:14 better for Jesus to die instead of the people

- Acts 5:37 Judas of Galilee died

- 1 Corinthians 10:9-10 Rebellious Israelites killed in the wilderness by the serpents and the destroyer

- Jude 5, 11 Rebellious Israelites killed in the wilderness

Sometimes the meaning is something like "lose" in the sense of not having the thing any more:

- Matthew 5:29-30 losing an eye or a right hand (by being plucked out or cut off) rather than being cast into hell
- Matthew 10:42 (Mark 9:41) not losing the reward (a seemingly idiomatic usage) for giving a cup of cold water
- Luke 21:18 losing a hair from your head
- 2 John 1:8 not losing a reward

Sometimes the meaning is something like "spoil" in the sense of the thing going bad:
- John 6:12 uncollected fragments of food going to waste
- John 6:27 food going bad

Sometimes the meaning is something like "ruin" or "spoil":
- Matthew 9:17 (Mark 2:22; Luke 5:37) Breaking old wine skins by putting new wine in them
- John 10:10 Thief comes to destroy (the word in question) in addition to stealing and killing
- Romans 14:15 (1 Corinthians 8:11) Don't hurt your brother with your Christian meat-eating liberty
- James 1:11 of the decay of flowers
- 1 Peter 1:7 of the decay of gold

Sometimes the meaning is something like "misplaced":

- Matthew 10:6 & 15:24 The lost sheep of the house of Israel

- Luke 15:4, 6 the 100th sheep that was lost

- Luke 15:8-9 the 10th silver piece that was lost

Sometimes the meaning is similar to mentally ruin:

- 1 Corinthians 1:19 the wisdom of the wise will be destroyed  in parallel to prudence being despised 

Dead without resurrection:

- 1 Corinthians 15:18 (if there is no resurrection then ...)

Disputed (at least I assume they would be) passages:

- Matthew 10:28
- Matthew 10:39 (the first usage in that verse, as discussed above)
- Matthew 18:11 & 14
- Mark 1:24 & Luke 3:34 (about devils)
- Luke 13:3, 5
- Luke 19:10
- John 3:15-16
- John 6:39
- John 10:28
- John 12:25
- John 17:12 and 18:9 (regarding Judas)
- Romans 2:12
- 1 Corinthians 1:18
- 2 Corinthians 2:15
- 2 Corinthians 4:3, 9
- 2 Thessalonians 2:10
- Hebrews 1:11
- James 4:12
- 2 Peter 3:9 (cf. 6)

We could (and perhaps in a future post we will) distinguish the disputed uses into various categories.  For example, sometimes "those who perish" or "the lost" is a collective term for those who are not saved.