On this blog, the date of a post is not necessarily the date the post was actually written. Blogger sorts posts by date, but lets blogger users edit the date. So, if I have an administrative post (or some other post that's generally not of interest to many people), I sometimes assign it a very old date, to keep it off the front page of the blog. Sometimes, I give posts a date in the future (for example, if I want to keep a post as the head post of the blog front page for a while).
Likewise, the first time I save a draft in blogger, it saves the current day as the day of the post. Blogger doesn't update that information, unless I manually update it. So, sometimes posts that I've been editing get posted with a date that doesn't reflect the actual publication date, but just the date that the post was originally edited. Also, sometimes, I may redate a post to bump it to the top of the blog.
This post falls into the first of those categories: an administrative post that probably no one cares about.
Lesson: Don't put too much stock in the date of the post.
Saturday, December 02, 2006
Friday, December 01, 2006
Who is David Ponter?
David W. Ponter "We need to burn TULIP" (May 19, 2008), on-line C.V.
Briefly dismissed as "a well known Internet writer whose single topic, it seems, is the promotion of an Amyraldian view of the atonement and God's purposes therein," here (about 80% through the article)
- Ponter's own self-introduction (link) from DoctrinesofGrace.net
- According to TartanArmy Ponter has said that Owen's classic on the atonement is only good for lining a birdcage (link) (also, at the same link, quotation from Ponter declaring himself to be the opponent of TartanArmy)
- Thinks that "much of [the great Biblical commentator John] Gill’s exegesis and hermeneutics to be just so much junk" and suggests that he would use Gill's work (I guess, along with Owen's) to line his birdcage: "If I still had my pet bird, I know what would be lining the bottom of his little home." (source)
- Apparently now of Highlands PCA in Jackson, Mississippi (per his PurtianBoard profile)
- Occasional contributor at Theology Online under the name "Flynn"
- Virtual librarian for RTS (2) (3)
- Previously described as an Australian Presbyterian Scholar
- Grainy photo at page 9, here (Better photo here)
- His personal blog (also under the name "Flynn")
- His comments against Limited Atonement in the comboxes here (link) (2)
- He notes his opposition to the doctrines of the Protestant Reformed Church and John Gill in the combox here (link)
- He debates Calvin with Dave Armstrong (a Roman Catholic e-pologist) - specifically on the issue of Calvin's Supralapsarianism or not (here)
- Detailed rebuttal by TartanArmy (link) (and discussion)
- Although each of the items above has been documented (with links) David insists that this brief C.V. is a "disinformation factory" but refuses to identify even a single inaccuracy (link)
- Misidentifies Gordon Clark and "Hoeksema" as hyper-calvinists (link).
- "I created this blog [i.e. the "Calvin and Calvinism" site] so that folk who take the moderate and classic position don’t have to walk around in shame, belittled and disenfranchised, as many highs and hypers would try to have it. We can work, walk, teach, preach in complete confidence of the historical, logical and exegetical validity of our position. The classic position has a rich tradition in which some of the most powerful and influential Calvinists have been adherents to." (link)
David has responded to this C.V. here (link), and some brief responses to his claims are in order.
"... I was not even asked what I believe." David has been asked what he believes before and after this C.V. was posted. David, in fact was specifically asked to identify any mistakes in this C.V., so that they could be corrected, and he declined, as documented above.
"But guesses were made." The only "guess" would be an assumption that people mean for people to take the positions they advocate as their own. In other words, the statements above are advocated.
"I was not even asked where I source my beliefs." Where he sources his beliefs is really tangential.
"The connection to Geisler is just absurd." Of course, this C.V. does not make a connection. David must be referring to this post (link). But in that post, the comment is simply made that Ponter "seems to have borrowed" Geisler's technique of mislabeling one's view. David insists he did not borrow it from Geisler - so perhaps Geisler got the idea from Ponter. Either way it is deceptive and dishonest.
"The 4 point calvinism thing I completely reject." So do most Amyraldians. We don't see many that openly call themselves TUIP Calvinists. Instead, we see conventional Calvinists squeezed into categories like "hyper" and "high" while other groups are let in as "moderate" and "low" as illustrated in this example by one of David's associates, and upon which David commented (link).
"... the motives are open to challenge. Its as I must be quarantined as if I am some theological infection ..." The reason for the post is simple: Ponter has no easily accessible C.V. corresponding to Geisler's C.V. If he did, this post might be unnecessary. But, of course, Ponter did not ask what the motive for the post was ... which raises the spectre of hypocrisy.
"The most profound irony in all this is the ethical dilemma. Here is a man who keeps his identity totally secret from us, and so is totally unaccountable to the people of God, who yets sets himself up as judge over others. That is just so wrong in my opinion. Its scary that it happens on the net, and that "reformed" people do it. This has got to be the most damning in the whole thing." We'll get to what Ponter means in a second. It's worth pointing out, though, that the present author's profile has always had an email address accessible, and David knows this, because he has emailed the present author. Thus, following Matthew 18's process, the present author is accountable to the people of God.
"I have no means to seek a higher court, so to speak... so what is left is but for me to smile and ignore it." Now we see why David would want to know more identity - so that he can bring premature charges (without going through the Matthew 18 process) to a "higher court." It's also useful to note that posting comments like the one linked above is not "smil[ing] and ignor[ing] it."
Briefly dismissed as "a well known Internet writer whose single topic, it seems, is the promotion of an Amyraldian view of the atonement and God's purposes therein," here (about 80% through the article)
- Ponter's own self-introduction (link) from DoctrinesofGrace.net
- According to TartanArmy Ponter has said that Owen's classic on the atonement is only good for lining a birdcage (link) (also, at the same link, quotation from Ponter declaring himself to be the opponent of TartanArmy)
- Thinks that "much of [the great Biblical commentator John] Gill’s exegesis and hermeneutics to be just so much junk" and suggests that he would use Gill's work (I guess, along with Owen's) to line his birdcage: "If I still had my pet bird, I know what would be lining the bottom of his little home." (source)
- Apparently now of Highlands PCA in Jackson, Mississippi (per his PurtianBoard profile)
- Occasional contributor at Theology Online under the name "Flynn"
- Virtual librarian for RTS (2) (3)
- Previously described as an Australian Presbyterian Scholar
- Grainy photo at page 9, here (Better photo here)
- His personal blog (also under the name "Flynn")
- His comments against Limited Atonement in the comboxes here (link) (2)
- He notes his opposition to the doctrines of the Protestant Reformed Church and John Gill in the combox here (link)
- He debates Calvin with Dave Armstrong (a Roman Catholic e-pologist) - specifically on the issue of Calvin's Supralapsarianism or not (here)
- Detailed rebuttal by TartanArmy (link) (and discussion)
- Although each of the items above has been documented (with links) David insists that this brief C.V. is a "disinformation factory" but refuses to identify even a single inaccuracy (link)
- Misidentifies Gordon Clark and "Hoeksema" as hyper-calvinists (link).
- "I created this blog [i.e. the "Calvin and Calvinism" site] so that folk who take the moderate and classic position don’t have to walk around in shame, belittled and disenfranchised, as many highs and hypers would try to have it. We can work, walk, teach, preach in complete confidence of the historical, logical and exegetical validity of our position. The classic position has a rich tradition in which some of the most powerful and influential Calvinists have been adherents to." (link)
David has responded to this C.V. here (link), and some brief responses to his claims are in order.
"... I was not even asked what I believe." David has been asked what he believes before and after this C.V. was posted. David, in fact was specifically asked to identify any mistakes in this C.V., so that they could be corrected, and he declined, as documented above.
"But guesses were made." The only "guess" would be an assumption that people mean for people to take the positions they advocate as their own. In other words, the statements above are advocated.
"I was not even asked where I source my beliefs." Where he sources his beliefs is really tangential.
"The connection to Geisler is just absurd." Of course, this C.V. does not make a connection. David must be referring to this post (link). But in that post, the comment is simply made that Ponter "seems to have borrowed" Geisler's technique of mislabeling one's view. David insists he did not borrow it from Geisler - so perhaps Geisler got the idea from Ponter. Either way it is deceptive and dishonest.
"The 4 point calvinism thing I completely reject." So do most Amyraldians. We don't see many that openly call themselves TUIP Calvinists. Instead, we see conventional Calvinists squeezed into categories like "hyper" and "high" while other groups are let in as "moderate" and "low" as illustrated in this example by one of David's associates, and upon which David commented (link).
"... the motives are open to challenge. Its as I must be quarantined as if I am some theological infection ..." The reason for the post is simple: Ponter has no easily accessible C.V. corresponding to Geisler's C.V. If he did, this post might be unnecessary. But, of course, Ponter did not ask what the motive for the post was ... which raises the spectre of hypocrisy.
"The most profound irony in all this is the ethical dilemma. Here is a man who keeps his identity totally secret from us, and so is totally unaccountable to the people of God, who yets sets himself up as judge over others. That is just so wrong in my opinion. Its scary that it happens on the net, and that "reformed" people do it. This has got to be the most damning in the whole thing." We'll get to what Ponter means in a second. It's worth pointing out, though, that the present author's profile has always had an email address accessible, and David knows this, because he has emailed the present author. Thus, following Matthew 18's process, the present author is accountable to the people of God.
"I have no means to seek a higher court, so to speak... so what is left is but for me to smile and ignore it." Now we see why David would want to know more identity - so that he can bring premature charges (without going through the Matthew 18 process) to a "higher court." It's also useful to note that posting comments like the one linked above is not "smil[ing] and ignor[ing] it."
Dave Armstrong Index Page
Since some of his fans have got the idea that I never address Armstrong's positions, I've provided a list of relevant posts below, which I will expand upon as time permits.
8. Canon Issues and "Christian" Definition Sophistry from Mr. Armstrong
7. Judged According to Works?
6. Cochlaeus Quotation Dialog (this is just one of several on that topic)
5. Trent vs. Sola Gratia
4. Prayers to Saints (Second on the same topic)
3. The Power of the Keys
2. Do Lutherans think that "bishops, elders, and deacons are all synonymous terms"?
1. Presbyters
8. Canon Issues and "Christian" Definition Sophistry from Mr. Armstrong
7. Judged According to Works?
6. Cochlaeus Quotation Dialog (this is just one of several on that topic)
5. Trent vs. Sola Gratia
4. Prayers to Saints (Second on the same topic)
3. The Power of the Keys
2. Do Lutherans think that "bishops, elders, and deacons are all synonymous terms"?
1. Presbyters
Bellisario Index
I have noticed that Mr. Matthew Bellisario has indicated an intent to break off further blog interaction (link). I think now is a good time to catalog comprehensively our interactions with Mr. Bellisario. Please note that the date on this blog post may eventually not be indicative of when it was actually published. Although I may let it publish initially with one date, I'm planning to date-bump it back, to keep it near other index posts. I've tried to exclude posts that merely referenced the Sola Scriptura debate without adding to it. I'll try to keep this post updated if I interact further with Mr. Bellisario. There were at least one or two other items of his in my "to-do" list.
Formal Debate
Sola Scriptura vs. Roman Catholicism Debate
1. Introduction to the Debate
2. TurretinFan's Affirmative Constructive Essay
3. Bellisario's Negative Constructive Essay
4. TurretinFan's Rebuttal Essay
5. Bellisario's Rebuttal Essay
6. TurretinFan's Question 1 (Bellisario's Answer)
7. TurretinFan's Question 2 (Bellisario's Answer)
8. TurretinFan's Question 3 (Bellisario's Answer)
9. TurretinFan's Question 4 (Bellisario's Answer)
10. TurretinFan's Question 5 (Bellisario's Answer)
11. Bellisario's Question 1 (TurretinFan's Answer)
12. Bellisario's Question 2 (TurretinFan's Answer)
13. Bellisario's Question 3 (TurretinFan's Answer)
13. Bellisario's Question 4 (TurretinFan's Answer)
14. Bellisario's Question 5 (TurretinFan's Answer)
15. Bellisario's Concluding Essay
16. TurretinFan's Concluding Essay
Informal Debates
Informal Mortal Sin of Not Observing Obligatory Holy Days Debate
TurretinFan 1 "To the Lord, I will not be Celebrating Christ's Birth" (link)
Bellisario 1 "Why Protestantism is Theologically Dead! Christ is born! Glorify Him!" (link)
TurretinFan 2 "Bellisario and Rome vs. Paul the Apostle on Christian Liberty" (link)
Bellisario 2 "Defending Christmas- Answering the Spiritually Dead! Romans 14:6 What it really means." (link)
TurretinFan 3 "Bellisario vs. His Own Imagination on Christmas" (link)
Bellisario 3 "Roman's 14 :Holy Days and Answering the Un-identifiable One. II" (link)
TurretinFan 4 "Bellisario Swings Again" (link)
Bellisario 4 "Refuting TF once again. The Fallacy of the Apostolic Age" (link)
TurretinFan 5 "Bellisario Burying Himself in the Carcases of More Straw Men" (link)
Bellisario 5 "Turetin Fan's Crippled Minded Theology on the Apostles Part I" (link)
TurretinFan 6 "Bellisario - Authority Discussion" (link)
(Index Post Specifically for this debate.)
Informal Contraception Debate
Response to Bellisario's Response to Gene Bridges on Contraception
There were multiple updates to the post above, and there were numerous comments in the com-box. I have not broken out those updates and comments individually.
Further Comments From Bellisario on Contraception and Catholicism
My Response Quoting from a Bishop of Bellisario's Church
Bellisario's Attempt to Respond
My Audio/Video Answer to Bellisario's Attempt to Respond
Bellisario's Reply to the Audio/Video Answer (A Second Reply from Bellisario)
My Response to Bellisario's Reply (Including My Response to His Second Reply as an Update)
Informal Idolatry Debate
TurretinFan 1 "The Sort of Evangelical I'm Not" (link)
Bellisario 1 "Turretin Fan vs. Saint John of Damascus" (link)
TurretinFan 2 "John of Damascus vs. Over 300 Eighth-Century Bishops" (link)
Informal Tabernacle (the Romanist Late Medieval Innovation - not the Mosaic Temporary Structure) Debate
1. September 3, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Criticism of Dr. White
2. September 5, 2008 - Rebuttal to Bellisario's Rejoinder
Informal Eastern Orthodoxy and Transubstantiation Debate
Amalgamated Flow of Transubstation/Orthodoxy Debate
Informal How Not to Debate Roman Catholicism Debate
1. Post from Bellisario Highlighting Sexual Abuse Scandal (In Response to This Post Suggesting People Shouldn't Argue Against Catholicism based on the Sexual Abuse Scandal)
2. TurretinFan's Response Providing Ten Tips for how not to Defend Roman Catholicism
3. Bellisario's Response to the List (TurretinFan's Response: As you can see from Mr. Bellisario's responses, he still doesn't see what damage he is doing to his own side by making illogical, unsupported, and (to put it as nicely as possible) silly claims while dredging up a scandal that makes his church look bad.
Informal Bigotry Debate
1. June 15, 2009 - Bellisario Complains About Dr. White's Reference to Roman Catholic Nazis
2. June 16, 2009 - My Response to Mr. Bellisario's Complaint
Informal Dura Europos Debate
1. Comment from Bellisario Regarding Dura Europos
2. My Response
3. Bellisario's Followup
Informal Virgin of Guadeloupe Debate
1. June 28, 2009 - Original Post from Me (with updates) on the Cult of Mary in Mexico
2. June 30, 2009 - Bellisario's Criticism of the Original Post
3. July 1, 2009 - My Thanks to Bellisario and Some Thoughts on Interpreting Idols
4. (Undated or Date Unknown) - Bellisario Responds by MP3 to Issue of the Painting being an Idol
5. July 2, 2009 - My Response including a Critique of the Alleged Preservation of the Idol
Informal Perspicuity Debate (co-starring Mark Shea and David Waltz)
1. 1997 - An Original Discussion between Dr. White and Mr. Shea
2. July 15, 2009 - Post from Mark Shea including Section on Perspicuity
3. July 15, 2009 - Response from Dr. White to Mark Shea's Post
4. July 21, 2009 - More Detailed Post from Mr. Shea on Perspicuity
5. July 21, 2009 - My Response to Mr. Shea's post of July 21
6. July 23, 2009 - Mr. Bellisario's Response to my post of July 21
7. July 27, 2009 - Mr. Shea endorses Mr. Bellisario's Response
8. My Response to Mr. Bellisario's July 23 post:
Part 1 - Introduction
Part 2 - Cyril of Jerusalem
Part 3 - Justin Martyr
Part 4 - Irenaeus (1/2)
Part 5 - Tertullian
Part 6 - Athanasius (1/2)
Part 7 - Hilary of Poitiers
Part 8 - Augustine
Part 9 - Chrysostom
Part 10 - Athanasius (2/2)
Part 11 - Irenaeus (2/2)
Part 12 - Conclusion
9. Objection over Minor Detail Athanasius (1/2) Post, from David Waltz
10. My Response to the Objection
11. Waltz's Further Comments in Support of his Objection (addressed by an update of item 10)
Informal Ecclesiastical Analogy Debate
1. September 1, 2009 - Steve Hays Criticizes "Blueprint for Anarchy" Argument Using Alternate Analogies
2. September 2, 2009 - Bellisario Responds to Steve Hays
3. September 10, 2009 - My Response, Emphasizing that Christ not the Roman Pontiff is the Head of the Church
Informal Canon Debate
1. October 23, 2009 - Bellisario Attempts to Raise the Canon Argument and an Argument Allegedly from Athanasius Against Sola Scriptura
2. October 23, 2009 - I respond to Bellisario's Post - Noting that the Canon Argument Undermines Romanism and that Athanasius Supports the Reformation
3. October 26, 2009 - Bellisario Responds to one Paragraph from my post
4. October 26, 2009 - My Response to Bellisario's October 26 post
Informal Dialog
Music and Worship Issues - Informal Dialog
1. November 21, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Musical Comparison of Rap / Gregorian Chants
2. November 27, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Attempt to Identify "Protestant" Worthip
3. December 11, 2008 - Response and Comparison to Bellisario's Location of Illicit "Protestant" Worship
Informal Debate Followed Elsewhere
Cory Tucholski on Mary vs. Bellisario
1. September 2, 2008 - First Round
2. September 20, 2008 - Second Round
3. September 29, 2008 - Third Round
Miscellaneous Posts
1. July 31, 2008 - Observation on Romanist apologetic methods
2. October 13, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Criticism of Dr. Svendsen
3. December 16, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Use of Leo X
4. March 14, 2009 - Bellisario Asserts that Mr. Dyer has Refuted me (My Further Response to Mr. Dyer may be found here)
5. June 27, 2009 - Transubstantiation, Metaphor, and Common Sense
6. July 9, 2009 - Bellisario on the Papacy (by Proxy) - A Response - Part 1 and Part 2
***
This ends the index, for now. I hope that my interactions with Mr. Bellisario have served to edify the body of Christ and inform all the readers.
This seems like a good place as well to identify Mr. Bellisario. Mr. Bellisario describes himself this way: "I do not have any formal degrees in theology. I have taken some classes from Notre Dame on early church history and so forth. I do however engage in my own research and I have a library well over 1000 volumes." (source) He also calls himself a "Ukrainian Rite" member of Catholicism.
To the glory of the God properly portrayed with words not paint,
-TurretinFan
Formal Debate
Sola Scriptura vs. Roman Catholicism Debate
1. Introduction to the Debate
2. TurretinFan's Affirmative Constructive Essay
3. Bellisario's Negative Constructive Essay
4. TurretinFan's Rebuttal Essay
5. Bellisario's Rebuttal Essay
6. TurretinFan's Question 1 (Bellisario's Answer)
7. TurretinFan's Question 2 (Bellisario's Answer)
8. TurretinFan's Question 3 (Bellisario's Answer)
9. TurretinFan's Question 4 (Bellisario's Answer)
10. TurretinFan's Question 5 (Bellisario's Answer)
11. Bellisario's Question 1 (TurretinFan's Answer)
12. Bellisario's Question 2 (TurretinFan's Answer)
13. Bellisario's Question 3 (TurretinFan's Answer)
13. Bellisario's Question 4 (TurretinFan's Answer)
14. Bellisario's Question 5 (TurretinFan's Answer)
15. Bellisario's Concluding Essay
16. TurretinFan's Concluding Essay
Informal Debates
Informal Mortal Sin of Not Observing Obligatory Holy Days Debate
TurretinFan 1 "To the Lord, I will not be Celebrating Christ's Birth" (link)
Bellisario 1 "Why Protestantism is Theologically Dead! Christ is born! Glorify Him!" (link)
TurretinFan 2 "Bellisario and Rome vs. Paul the Apostle on Christian Liberty" (link)
Bellisario 2 "Defending Christmas- Answering the Spiritually Dead! Romans 14:6 What it really means." (link)
TurretinFan 3 "Bellisario vs. His Own Imagination on Christmas" (link)
Bellisario 3 "Roman's 14 :Holy Days and Answering the Un-identifiable One. II" (link)
TurretinFan 4 "Bellisario Swings Again" (link)
Bellisario 4 "Refuting TF once again. The Fallacy of the Apostolic Age" (link)
TurretinFan 5 "Bellisario Burying Himself in the Carcases of More Straw Men" (link)
Bellisario 5 "Turetin Fan's Crippled Minded Theology on the Apostles Part I" (link)
TurretinFan 6 "Bellisario - Authority Discussion" (link)
(Index Post Specifically for this debate.)
Informal Contraception Debate
Response to Bellisario's Response to Gene Bridges on Contraception
There were multiple updates to the post above, and there were numerous comments in the com-box. I have not broken out those updates and comments individually.
Further Comments From Bellisario on Contraception and Catholicism
My Response Quoting from a Bishop of Bellisario's Church
Bellisario's Attempt to Respond
My Audio/Video Answer to Bellisario's Attempt to Respond
Bellisario's Reply to the Audio/Video Answer (A Second Reply from Bellisario)
My Response to Bellisario's Reply (Including My Response to His Second Reply as an Update)
Informal Idolatry Debate
TurretinFan 1 "The Sort of Evangelical I'm Not" (link)
Bellisario 1 "Turretin Fan vs. Saint John of Damascus" (link)
TurretinFan 2 "John of Damascus vs. Over 300 Eighth-Century Bishops" (link)
Informal Tabernacle (the Romanist Late Medieval Innovation - not the Mosaic Temporary Structure) Debate
1. September 3, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Criticism of Dr. White
2. September 5, 2008 - Rebuttal to Bellisario's Rejoinder
Informal Eastern Orthodoxy and Transubstantiation Debate
Amalgamated Flow of Transubstation/Orthodoxy Debate
Informal How Not to Debate Roman Catholicism Debate
1. Post from Bellisario Highlighting Sexual Abuse Scandal (In Response to This Post Suggesting People Shouldn't Argue Against Catholicism based on the Sexual Abuse Scandal)
2. TurretinFan's Response Providing Ten Tips for how not to Defend Roman Catholicism
3. Bellisario's Response to the List (TurretinFan's Response: As you can see from Mr. Bellisario's responses, he still doesn't see what damage he is doing to his own side by making illogical, unsupported, and (to put it as nicely as possible) silly claims while dredging up a scandal that makes his church look bad.
Informal Bigotry Debate
1. June 15, 2009 - Bellisario Complains About Dr. White's Reference to Roman Catholic Nazis
2. June 16, 2009 - My Response to Mr. Bellisario's Complaint
Informal Dura Europos Debate
1. Comment from Bellisario Regarding Dura Europos
2. My Response
3. Bellisario's Followup
Informal Virgin of Guadeloupe Debate
1. June 28, 2009 - Original Post from Me (with updates) on the Cult of Mary in Mexico
2. June 30, 2009 - Bellisario's Criticism of the Original Post
3. July 1, 2009 - My Thanks to Bellisario and Some Thoughts on Interpreting Idols
4. (Undated or Date Unknown) - Bellisario Responds by MP3 to Issue of the Painting being an Idol
5. July 2, 2009 - My Response including a Critique of the Alleged Preservation of the Idol
Informal Perspicuity Debate (co-starring Mark Shea and David Waltz)
1. 1997 - An Original Discussion between Dr. White and Mr. Shea
2. July 15, 2009 - Post from Mark Shea including Section on Perspicuity
3. July 15, 2009 - Response from Dr. White to Mark Shea's Post
4. July 21, 2009 - More Detailed Post from Mr. Shea on Perspicuity
5. July 21, 2009 - My Response to Mr. Shea's post of July 21
6. July 23, 2009 - Mr. Bellisario's Response to my post of July 21
7. July 27, 2009 - Mr. Shea endorses Mr. Bellisario's Response
8. My Response to Mr. Bellisario's July 23 post:
Part 1 - Introduction
Part 2 - Cyril of Jerusalem
Part 3 - Justin Martyr
Part 4 - Irenaeus (1/2)
Part 5 - Tertullian
Part 6 - Athanasius (1/2)
Part 7 - Hilary of Poitiers
Part 8 - Augustine
Part 9 - Chrysostom
Part 10 - Athanasius (2/2)
Part 11 - Irenaeus (2/2)
Part 12 - Conclusion
9. Objection over Minor Detail Athanasius (1/2) Post, from David Waltz
10. My Response to the Objection
11. Waltz's Further Comments in Support of his Objection (addressed by an update of item 10)
Informal Ecclesiastical Analogy Debate
1. September 1, 2009 - Steve Hays Criticizes "Blueprint for Anarchy" Argument Using Alternate Analogies
2. September 2, 2009 - Bellisario Responds to Steve Hays
3. September 10, 2009 - My Response, Emphasizing that Christ not the Roman Pontiff is the Head of the Church
Informal Canon Debate
1. October 23, 2009 - Bellisario Attempts to Raise the Canon Argument and an Argument Allegedly from Athanasius Against Sola Scriptura
2. October 23, 2009 - I respond to Bellisario's Post - Noting that the Canon Argument Undermines Romanism and that Athanasius Supports the Reformation
3. October 26, 2009 - Bellisario Responds to one Paragraph from my post
4. October 26, 2009 - My Response to Bellisario's October 26 post
Informal Dialog
Music and Worship Issues - Informal Dialog
1. November 21, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Musical Comparison of Rap / Gregorian Chants
2. November 27, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Attempt to Identify "Protestant" Worthip
3. December 11, 2008 - Response and Comparison to Bellisario's Location of Illicit "Protestant" Worship
Informal Debate Followed Elsewhere
Cory Tucholski on Mary vs. Bellisario
1. September 2, 2008 - First Round
2. September 20, 2008 - Second Round
3. September 29, 2008 - Third Round
Miscellaneous Posts
1. July 31, 2008 - Observation on Romanist apologetic methods
2. October 13, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Criticism of Dr. Svendsen
3. December 16, 2008 - Response to Bellisario's Use of Leo X
4. March 14, 2009 - Bellisario Asserts that Mr. Dyer has Refuted me (My Further Response to Mr. Dyer may be found here)
5. June 27, 2009 - Transubstantiation, Metaphor, and Common Sense
6. July 9, 2009 - Bellisario on the Papacy (by Proxy) - A Response - Part 1 and Part 2
***
This ends the index, for now. I hope that my interactions with Mr. Bellisario have served to edify the body of Christ and inform all the readers.
This seems like a good place as well to identify Mr. Bellisario. Mr. Bellisario describes himself this way: "I do not have any formal degrees in theology. I have taken some classes from Notre Dame on early church history and so forth. I do however engage in my own research and I have a library well over 1000 volumes." (source) He also calls himself a "Ukrainian Rite" member of Catholicism.
To the glory of the God properly portrayed with words not paint,
-TurretinFan
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