Wednesday, December 08, 2010

Dividing Line Program Tomorrow - December 9, 2010

Tomorrow, December 9, 2010, I will be guest hosting the Dividing Line webcast. Pastor David King, author of Holy Scripture: The Ground and Pillar of our Faith will be my guest. Lord willing, we will be discussing topics related to Roman Catholicism, particularly some recent blog posts from the Called to [Roman] Communion blog. We will also be taking calls if anyone calls in. We would especially welcome calls from those presently in the Roman communion that have questions about Reformed theology.

-TurretinFan

9 comments:

ChaferDTS said...

I pray that the program goes well for you.

natamllc said...

ChaferDTS

Did you pray? If so, God was out to lunch or sleeping on the job with this one because He sure didn't answer you! :)

I tried several times to call either of the two Dividing Line phone lines, the direct Phoenix line and the toll free line today and ended up just emailing my question to TF who in turn could then ask Pastor King for his response. At first it didn't seem like Pastor King was going even get a spot on the line but eventually as things went along he came on and there was some vigorous discussions.

I would like the Dividing Line to post this so we can listen to it again??

As I was saying, after several attempts to get online to ask my question, I then sent a desperate email to the Dividing Line directly asking for their assistance and just as TF was introducing James Swan to the program, I got an email reply giving me another option to call into the program on another number. I opted out because of Swan. Just being able to listen to these three men was more than enough of a treat so I did forgo the offer to be stroked by one or all of them answering my question on live radio! :)

I will post the question here just in case this blog isn't having technical difficulties and perchance TF or Pastor King or even James Swan, who made a cameo appearance on the Dividing Line, :) wish to respond to it?

It is rhetorical from a Reformed point of view but is also a humble attempt to shed some light on what seems to be amiss when one considers the level, degree and depth to which Roman Catholics go to embrace their pedagogues of Mariology.

Here's the question:


Regarding Mary, are the Romanists, the Papacy or Magisterium, RCC et. al. exempting Mary from Paul’s teaching in Romans chapter 7 and particularly and specifically Romans 7:6 or 7:22-24?

Ryan said...

Awesome program. I recently wrote a post on the alleged New Eve - Mary typology, and you made some points I hadn't considered. Thanks for the hard work!

Anonymous said...

I am listening right now. You are really packing a lot of arguments in at the beginning here!

Jason Engwer said...

Good program. You and your guests did well.

natamllc said...

Ok,

I am listening to the program again now a couple more times.

It is much more succinct today listening to the canned broadcast than when I was listening to yesterday's live program.

Yesterday I wasn't just listening to the program.

I was doing several other things at the same time, like calling and emailing while I was listening to the discussion in an attempt to get my question into the discussion on the Immaculate Conception teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

Today, things are much clearer when listening to the program again and again seeing it is canned and I can pause the broadcast and think about what you said and then pick up the discussion from there! Plus, they have edited out extraneous portions from the live program so this canned reproduction makes it crisper and clearer.

Your first point is as powerful as the several other points of discussion. I would like to reiterate it because of that.

With everything Roman Catholic what I am listening for is the "deception" that is currently at work in the hearts and minds of our adversaries who's heart is centered on the wrong side of the Tiber. I don't believe all Roman Catholics are as entrenched in their dogma as some are.

The foundation of this ancient battle between the two, and I might say, only one side will win and that side is the Right side of the battle, is the side that wins the battle through Christ by One Spirit, which is the eternal purpose and work of God God calls us into on earth as He has prophesied and that prophesy is canonized in the Holy Scripture, both from the Old and the New!

Genesis 3 teaches:

Gen 3:20 The man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

Eve was sinless and became sinful.

Mary, as all those God gives New Life to, by being born again, was first of the nature of Adam then she became sinful.

All humanity is of Eve's flesh; and after she, Mary, came into the world by natural birth was also born again by the same Hand of God. When she died her natural death, she entered Glory sinless!

I like your argument against their position when you focused on some of the thoughts God gave the Apostle Paul about being highly favored.

The only ones who die and enter Glory as Mary, are those highly favored by God as He highly favored Mary! The foundation of Truth is Christ Himself. The Church is built on that foundation. Mary, like all God's highly favored ones, is equally built on that same "Foundation", Christ Jesus, the Rock!

continuing:::>

natamllc said...

A couple of examples from that time period would be both Simeon and Anna, who lived exemplar lives before God and maybe more righteous a life than Mary? You can read about them in Luke chapter two.

Ok, onto some more points based on this discussion on the Dividing Line broadcast yesterday between you guys TF, Pastor King and then later, James Swan.

With regard to the discussion on the Ark and the typology of Mary being that Ark, the word "mystery" comes to mind.

Again, I make reference to the thoughts God gave the Apostle Paul when considering the Mystery of Godliness:

Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,
Col 1:25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known,
Col 1:26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.
Col 1:27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Col 1:28 Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ.


And I would note that Christ is in the same boat or fellowship as His Body, The Church, when it comes to Who is going to destroy teaching that is false.

Here is what the Apostle Paul says:

Rom 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

My guess is the Apostle Paul probably got that revelation from two sources. First, based on his own admonition to others, he got it from God Himself while in prayer as we see here:

Act 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

And, of course, from his own pondering and studies in those Sacred Scriptures available to him during his lifetime.

Here's one portion of those Scriptures perhaps he reflected on that brings me to conclude my point is it is God the Father through the One Spirit by the use of Elect Angels Who crushes Satan's head and all his false teachings before He disposes of him:

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool."
Psa 110:2 The LORD sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies!

natamllc said...

TF, in discussing what you have come to realize reading and studying the Patristics, you comment making a point something like this: "learning the positives and the mistakes of these men"!

How true that reasoning is in fact. We see that God does not hide anything, both good and evil, from us who hold to Sola Scriptura.

The reasoning holds its course throughout general history and with our own personal histories when reading these Words from John:

1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

God, when directly dealing with us at our time of natural death, knows both all our good works and our evil motives.

He doesn't take into account any of it.

He only takes into account what has been done with the Faith He gives us as His Gift of Eternal Life, and ironically, that Gift is the very confession Peter uttered, blurting out Who Jesus is when he was asked who is He! Yes, Peter was given the Gift of Faith so he could make the confession of Faith as Mary did as all of God's Children make.

Just as God opens the natural womb, so it is that He opens the heart, one heart at a time and puts His Faith in there so that it is to take root and grow.

Here is the battlefield, what one believes!

The Apostles understood that nurturing this Gift of Faith by Grace through Christ by One Spirit is elementary.

Some, and I will go out on a limb here and say most True Believers may not get very far past the elementary oracles of this Faith once delivered to the Saints.

It really is not so much how much you know as it is Who you believe and what you believe He has done for you that saves you from the wrath of God. It isn't what you have done first. It is what He has finished so you work the works of God, too!

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


The writer of the book of Hebrews which was referenced in this Dividing Line discussion wrote this:

Heb 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food,
Heb 5:13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.
Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this we will do if God permits.


My belief is this about that. God is our Good Father and it is His Joy to give us, His predetermined Children, the Kingdom through Christ's death, burial and Resurrection back to Eternal Glory, which is what God calls all of His Children into:

1Pe 5:10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.


Luk 12:22 And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat, nor about your body, what you will put on.
Luk 12:23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing.
Luk 12:24 Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds!
Luk 12:25 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?

Luk 12:32 "Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

ChaferDTS said...

I enjoyed listening to the program when I finally got a chance to sit down last night while online. My prayer on it going well was answered. :) I was pleased with how it went as far as the discussion was concerned. Thanks TF for a very good program !