Friday, July 16, 2010

September 13, 1969

On September 13, 1969, (according to this document that Jason Smathers has unearthed) Acar Caner, aged 35 (nearly 36), came to America. At that time, his eldest son (Ergun Caner) was only two years old, though nearly three. Both of these dates/ages are based on an assumption that the birthdays we've been given for Acar Caner and Ergun Caner are correct. Furthermore, if the birthday we've been given for Emir Caner is correct (namely August 1970), it would appear that Emir did not come to America as an unborn child.

Also interesting is the fact that Acar Caner appears to have been granted U.S. citizenship on July 13, 1976, and that he claims he was not out of the U.S. for any more than 6 months at a time between then and (apparently) 1980 or 1981.

Another item of note is the fact that Acar Caner apparently changed his name (from Martin to Mehmet or vice versa is a little unclear to me from this document).



Ex N1hilo said...

More slander unleashed against Ergun Caner by the Forces of Darkness. When will the persecution of this innocent and most virtuous man end?

Pilgrimsarbour said...

Furthermore, if the birthday we've been given for Emir Caner is correct (namely August 1970), it would appear that Emir did not come to America as an unborn child.

Sorry, I'm a little thick sometimes. You mean Emir's mother was not yet pregnant with him when the Caners came to America, yes?

Ex N1hilo said...

No one can know for sure when a man immigrated to American unless he can can read that man's heart. To say otherwise is dishonest and potentially libelous.

Wait till Geisler responds to this. All EC critics will again look like fools!

Fredericka said...

Was 'Martin' perhaps an effort by Acar or someone else to Anglicize or Swedish-ize 'Mehmet'? That happens sometimes. A dumb old joke: A big blonde Swede came through the immigration line. Asked his name, he replied, 'Ole Oleson.' The immigration clerk stamped his form and motioned for the next in line. This was a Chinese man, who, when asked his name, said 'Sam Ting.' The startled immigration clerk asked, 'Are you sure? That's really your name?' The man repeated, 'Sam Ting.' So the clerk filled in the form with 'Ole Oleson,' and from that point forward that was the Chinese man's name.

Anonymous said...


I guess one thing is certain from that document, Dr. Caner did pass through New York!

Now, having been to New York and New York, New York, one wonders what's so new about York? :)

Did I tell you about the nightmare taxi cap ride I will never forget that I took from La Guardia to a hotel in Downtown Brooklyn?

I guess, at any age, thoughts do have a way of sticking to ya!

Erp said...

Strictly speaking his father entered the US at New York but

(1) may have immediately taken a plane to the midwest and not stayed in New York.

(2) the rest of the family may have come a bit later and possibly to a different port of entry such as Chicago (not too much later given that Emir was born and probably conceived in the US).

The latter is not unlikely if Caner senior came first to look for a place to house his family. He might stay in a motel or the couch of a friend but that is a bit tricky if you have a 2 year old kid in tow.

BTW if the father got citizenship in 1976, Ergun probably got it then also as he was under 16 at the time though I don't know whether the divorce muddles matters.

Anonymous said...

Will Geisler, Lumkins and Guthrie respond to this latest evidence?

Tom said...

"Will Geisler, Lumkins and Guthrie respond to this latest evidence?"

Oh, they will probably respond.

Whether their "response" is coherant, rational, accurate, and has any Scriptural basis whasoever is an entirely different matter.

Coram Deo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Coram Deo said...

I'm personally saddened that the YEC (Young Ergun Caner) and OEC (Old Ergun Caner) hypotheses can't be harmonized in a less divisive, and more loving manner than has been demonstrated by their respective adherents so far.

We all agree that E.C. was created by the God of Abraham, and to me the discrete timing of actual events in each account is less important than the fact that we all unify together as one body around the fact that E.C. is currently in America, and is an American.

Sure, there may be seeming gaps in each theory, but we should be focused on the joy of the journey, not engaging in pointless naval gazing about the "how" and "when".

Those things ought to be left as beautiful mysteries, not subjected to ugly Platonic logic.

Ergun's nativity stories ought to be accepted by faith, and any seeming contradictions should be considered a priori as impossibilities, pointing us back to our own inherent sinful fallibility.

If something seems contradictory about his words we should understand that the problem lies with our own sinfully corrupted reasoning powers, and we should seek to accept as true whatever he says on the basis that it will be made clear to us in eternity.

Serious and competent brethren like Norm Geisler and Peter Lumpkins have been pointing us toward this gentle and humble hermeneutic for some time now, but not all have eyes to see, or ears to hear the gracious words that drop like pearls from their lips.

We are to believe in order to understand, we are not to understand in order to believe.


In Christ,

Turretinfan said...

Pilgrimsarbour: yes.


As to (1), Ergun Caner has told enough stories about learning English in Brooklyn that I'm guessing they may have stayed there for a few weeks or months. But yes, this in no way proves that they lived in NY. It's certainly possibly they got on a plane or train immediately upon arriving.

As to (2), yes, there is still a question of whether the Caner family immigrated together or separately. I don't recall hearing any stories (yet) from the Caners saying that their father came first - though I seem to recall them saying that they all came together.

Acar had two kids by then - Ergun and his next younger brother Erdem (1968, if I recall correctly). While there is certainly an inconvenience to dragging the kids along, I have yet to hear that the family came in two waves.

I'm not sure what complication that divorce played in the citizenship issue. Obviously, divorce has no effect on one's legal relationship to one's children.

Turretinfan said...

"You mean Emir's mother was not yet pregnant with him when the Caners came to America, yes?"

When I answered this "yes," above, I mean that - as far as we know - that is the case.

Anonymous said...

from wikipedia entry for Harry Houdini:
"Harry Houdini was born as Erik Weisz (he would later spell his birth name as Ehrich Weiss) in Budapest, Hungary on March 24, 1874.[1] From 1907 on, however, Houdini would claim in interviews to have been born in Appleton, Wisconsin, on April 6, 1874."