Wednesday, January 12, 2011

Compare and Contrast

Jesse Morrell: "If it were up to God, everybody would repent and be saved." (Facebook status on 11 January 2011)

Jesus: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)

Nebuchadnezzar: "all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" (Daniel 4:35)

It is truly remarkable to contrast the powerlessness of God in the synergistic system to the power of God in the monergistic and Biblical description.

15 comments:

qm said...

Are you telling me that someone actually said that (re: "If it were up to God...")? That's hard to believe.

I've heard some scary stuff in my time, but that one might just take the cake...

Turretinfan said...

Yes. I did not make it up. It was his facebook status. And he had twenty "likes" on his status by the time I saw it, so he's not alone.

Anonymous said...

Instead, The God of Calvinism has no power, in that if man had a total free- will he would overthrow God, so he made man a puppet so as not to overthrow his handy work. That is one weak god.

I hear all kinds stupidity coming from Calvinists on the carm boards, we could have dumb fest of stupid quotes from everybody of both sides.

natamllc said...

To frame my conclusion to this ...:

[Jesse Morrell: "If it were up to God, everybody would repent and be saved." (Facebook status on 11 January 2011)]

...this way, "that's a bunch of bunk", I offer several more verses to those you have cited, Matthew 28:18 and Daniel 4:35.

How about these:

Psa 67:1 To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm. A Song. May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face to shine upon us, Selah
Psa 67:2 that your way may be known on earth, your saving power among all nations.

Psa 68:28 Summon your power, O God, the power, O God, by which you have worked for us.

Psa 68:34 Ascribe power to God, whose majesty is over Israel, and whose power is in the skies.
Psa 68:35 Awesome is God from his sanctuary; the God of Israel--he is the one who gives power and strength to his people. Blessed be God!

Psa 135:5 For I know that the LORD is great, and that our Lord is above all gods.
Psa 135:6 Whatever the LORD pleases, he does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps.
Psa 135:7 He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his storehouses.


And let's not forget the Apostle Paul, here:

Php 3:17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.
Php 3:18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.
Php 3:19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.
Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ryan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ryan said...

"Instead, The God of Calvinism has no power, in that if man had a total free- will he would overthrow God, so he made man a puppet so as not to overthrow his handy work. That is one weak god."

Be sure to pour several gallons of gasoline on this straw man before you light it.

"I hear all kinds stupidity coming from Calvinists on the carm boards, we could have dumb fest of stupid quotes from everybody of both sides."

I'm sorry that I keep making this particular observation on your blog in relation to various other people's posts Turretinfan, but can anyone else see the irony here?

Anonymous said...

#OFF TOPIC#

I can't seem to find any RSS feed for this blog, is there any? If so, please comment with a link.

Thanks!

Turretinfan said...

http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default/

http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/feeds/comments/default/

natamllc said...

I would like to offer some more thought to the notion that "If it were up to God..."

and

"...everybody would repent and be saved."

Well, first, yes, it is always up to God that anyone is saved. Not all are destined to be saved.

To the first point, consider some ideas that one can think about from Psalm 71.

For instance, this idea as is conveyed clearly in Psalm 71 (utilizing the English Standard version):

Psa 71:3 Be to me a rock of refuge, to which I may continually come; you have given the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.

Here we hear that God gives a command to save the writer of this Psalm.

And seeing that God is the same, always, yesterday, today, forever, we, too, can conclude something about our salvation; and the lack thereof about the wicked in this world we find ourselves in.

And the conclusion is?

God first gives the command before salvation comes to those for whom He has given the command!

There is more irony here, in light of Jesse Morrell's claim that if it were up to God, everybody would repent and be saved when we come to the same conclusion about our own experience of His salvation commanded for us, for which He obtained on our personal behalf, as the conclusion of Psalm 71:

Psa 71:22 I will also praise you with the harp for your faithfulness, O my God; I will sing praises to you with the lyre, O Holy One of Israel.
Psa 71:23 My lips will shout for joy, when I sing praises to you; my soul also, which you have redeemed.
Psa 71:24 And my tongue will talk of your righteous help all the day long, for they have been put to shame and disappointed who sought to do me hurt.

Jesse Morrell said...

If it were up to God, everyone would repent and be saved. But man's repentance is man's choice, which is why the will of God in this case is not always done.

“Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions… Cast away from you all your transgressions” (Eze. 18:30-31).

“At what instance I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; if that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them” (Jer. 18:7-8).

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent" (Acts 17:30).

“And I gave her space to repent of her fornication, and she repented not” (Rev. 2:21).

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9).

A. W. Tozer said, “…we must of our own free will repent toward God and believe in Jesus Christ. This the Bible plainly teaches; this experience abundantly supports. Repentance involves moral reformation. The wrong practices are on man’s part, and only man can correct them. Lying, for instance, is an act of man and one for which he must accept full responsibility. When he repents he will quit lying. God will not quit for him; he will quit for himself.”3 He also said, “God cannot do our repenting for us. In our efforts to magnify grace we have so preached the truth as to convey the impression that repentance is a work of God. This is a grave mistake, and one which is taking a frightful toll among Christians everywhere. God has commanded all men to repent. It is a work which only they can do. It is morally impossible for one person to repent for another. Even Christ could not do this. He could die for us, but He cannot do our repenting for us.”

A. W. Tozer said, “The day when it is once more understood that God will not be responsible for our sin and unbelief will be a glad one for the Church of Christ. The realization that we are personally responsible for our individual sins may be a shock to our hearts, but it will clear the air and remove the uncertainty. Returning sinners waste their time begging God to perform the very acts He has sternly commanded them to do.”

Jesse Morrell said...

A total of 61 people so far have "liked" my comment that if it were up to God, everyone would repent and be saved. That means that there are at least 61 people that read their Bibles without Calvinist glasses on.

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9)

Turretinfan said...

I'm not sure them clicking "like" says anything about whether they read the Bible or not.

But it is hard to go from "The Almighty" to "if it were up to God ..." without some kind of x-ray goggles.

-TurretinFan

Jim Gilles said...

Natamllc,
How do you know that you are "destined to be saved?"

Jesse Morrell said...

Terretinfan,

Right, your logic is sound. Either God causes everything and forces men to repent, or He is "powerless." This isn't the fallacy of a false dilemma. There is no third option like God giving men free will. God is threatened by man's free will. God would lose all of His power if He created free moral agents. Either God causes everything or He is not God. Those synergists are just too dumb for the wisdom of Geneva.

Turretinfan said...

Jesse:

Your mocking aside, if someone can't get what they want, it suggests a lack of power.

You claim that God can't get what he wants. That suggests a lack of power.

Your idea of what "free will" is, is simply an inaccurate conception of man's will. The Bible describes man's will in much weaker terms than your theology does.

Man, after all, is like grass.

-TurretinFan