Sunday, June 13, 2010

The Sin-Forgiving God

One of the attributes of God is the ability to forgive sins. This is stated explicitly in Exodus:
Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Furthermore, it is found implicitly in the passages of the Old Testament where God promises to forgive sin:
  • 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  • Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Additionally, it is found implicitly in the passages of the Old Testament where men ask God for forgiveness of sin:

  • Psalm 25:15-18
    Mine eyes are ever toward the LORD; for he shall pluck my feet out of the net. Turn thee unto me, and have mercy upon me; for I am desolate and afflicted. The troubles of my heart are enlarged: O bring thou me out of my distresses. Look upon mine affliction and my pain; and forgive all my sins.

  • Psalm 85:1-4 (To the chief Musician, A Psalm for the sons of Korah.)
    LORD, thou hast been favourable unto thy land: thou hast brought back the captivity of Jacob. Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah. Thou hast taken away all thy wrath: thou hast turned thyself from the fierceness of thine anger. Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease.
We also see the same thing implicit the prayer which Christ taught his disciples:
Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
On at least two occasions (and perhaps more than that), Jesus forgave sins. The first occasion that I'll mention is in the instance of the weeping woman in the Pharisee's house. Luke provides the following account:

Luke 7:36-50
And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat. And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, and stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, "This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner."

And Jesus answering said unto him, "Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee."
And he saith, "Master, say on."

"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?"

Simon answered and said, "I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most."

And he said unto him, "Thou hast rightly judged."

And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, "Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, 'Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little'."

And he said unto her, "Thy sins are forgiven."

And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, "Who is this that forgiveth sins also?"

And he said to the woman, "Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."
Notice that, in another testimony to Jesus' divinity, he knew Simon the Pharisee's heart (see discussion here). In this passage, Jesus forgives the sins of the woman who had faith in Jesus and demonstrated that faith in love by washing his feet with her tears, wiping them with her hair, and anointing his feet with precious oil (perhaps, in view of the account of Matthew 26, we should view this as being that she anointed him from head to foot with the oil). Those who heard this marveled, precisely because they realized that only God can forgive sins.

We see this also illustrated in healing of the bed-ridden man who was sick of the palsy:

Matthew 9:2-8
And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; "Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee."

And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, "This man blasphemeth."

And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, "Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? For whether is easier, to say, 'Thy sins be forgiven thee;' or to say, 'Arise, and walk?' But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) 'Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house'."

And he arose, and departed to his house. But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.
Notice that here we are given more details about the reaction. Those who knew the Scriptures but considered Jesus to be only a man thought that he was a blasphemer, because he pretended to forgive sins. Jesus, however, knew their hearts (another proof of his divinity, as we mentioned above) and Jesus demonstrated that he was not just pretending to forgive sins by healing the palsied man.

The same or a similar event (there is no requirement that it be the same event) is found in Mark and Luke:

Mark 2:1-12
And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house. And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them. And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four. And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.

When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, "Son, thy sins be forgiven thee."

But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, "Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?"

And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, "Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, 'Thy sins be forgiven thee;' or to say, 'Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?' But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, 'Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house'."

And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Luke 5:18-26
And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken with a palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him before him. And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus. And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, "Man, thy sins are forgiven thee."

And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?"

But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, "What reason ye in your hearts? Whether is easier, to say, 'Thy sins be forgiven thee;' or to say, 'Rise up and walk?' But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, 'Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house'."

And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God. And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, "We have seen strange things to day."
Notice how in these two passages we are told explicitly the reason why Jesus' words of forgiveness are shocking: only God can forgive sins. Jesus specifically demonstrates his ability to forgive sins by healing palsy. In this way, Jesus provides evidence of his own divinity.

Notice that Jesus does not say, "I will pray that God will forgive your sins," nor does he say, "I pray that God will heal your palsy." Instead, Jesus declares the sins to be forgiven and heals the palsied man by command.

The apostles recognized that the forgiveness of sins comes through Jesus Christ. Thus, we see this in the speech of the Apostle Peter and the other apostles:

Acts 5:29-32
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said,

"We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."
As an aside, it is interesting to point out this reference to the Trinity, God (the father), Jesus, and the Holy Ghost.

We see the same thing about forgiveness of sins coming through Jesus Christ in Paul's speech:

Acts 13:33-39
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee." And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, "I will give you the sure mercies of David." Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, "Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: but he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: and by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Notice that Paul not only attributes forgiveness of sins to Jesus, but explains that through belief in him one is justified from all the things from which people could not be justified by the law of Moses. You will remember that there was a way for people to obtain forgiveness from God through the sacrificial system that God gave to Israel through Moses:
  • Leviticus 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

  • Leviticus 4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

  • Leviticus 4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

  • Leviticus 5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

  • Leviticus 5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.

  • Leviticus 6:7 And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.

  • Leviticus 19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

  • Numbers 15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:

  • Numbers 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
Notice that in these cases there was the opportunity for forgiveness through the mediation of the priest who offered an atonement for the person, and the person's sin was forgiven. These things foreshadowed Christ. Christ is the sacrifice and priest - more than that he is God. Forgiveness of sins is entirely His. Those for whom he offers atonement - their sins will be forgiven.

We see this confirmed in Jesus' own words as described by Paul to King Agrippa

Acts 26:1-20
Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Thou art permitted to speak for thyself.

Then Paul stretched forth the hand, and answered for himself:

I think myself happy, king Agrippa, because I shall answer for myself this day before thee touching all the things whereof I am accused of the Jews: especially because I know thee to be expert in all customs and questions which are among the Jews: wherefore I beseech thee to hear me patiently.

My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.

And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, at midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

And I said, "Who art thou, Lord?"

And he said, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Notice that Jesus explains that people receive forgiveness of sins through faith in him. And notice as well that Paul explains that he preached repentance (something sadly missing in many professing Christian circles) and turning to God, namely to Christ through whom by faith in Him, men receive forgiveness of sins.

Paul's epistle to the Ephesians teaches us the same thing:

Ephesians 1:3-12
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Notice the explicit link between the redemption by his blood and the forgiveness of sins. This is one reason we cannot have both hell and universal redemption: those redeemed by Christ's blood have their sins forgiven.

Likewise, we see the same thing in Colossians:

Colossians 1:12-17
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Same link between blood redemption and forgiveness, and Christ is the one whose blood provides us this forgiveness.

The same link between forgiveness and Christ is provided yet again in Colossians:

Colossians 2:8-15
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
The link here is specifically to Christ's death. His death forgives our sins, and it does so forensically: that's what "blotting out the handwriting of ordinances" means. There's no way to confuse that with infusion of actual righteousness.

John's general epistle also teaches the same thing:

1 John 1:1-10
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Notice how John is explicit that Jesus forgives our sins. Even if someone might say that Paul simply treats Jesus as the means to the end of forgiveness, John makes it clear that Jesus himself both forgives our sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

Let us praise Him by whom and through whom we are forgiven!

-TurretinFan

26 comments:

David Waltz said...

Hello TF,

Interesting thread; you begin with quotes from the OT which clearly demonstrate that God forgave sins prior to the crucifixion of our Lord. I am aware of some of the ‘traditional’ Reformed responses as to the how/why God forgave sins prior to the crucifixion of our Lord, but I would be very interested in YOUR thoughts on the basis of forgiveness in the OT. I feel moved by the Holy Spirit to provide an additional quote from the OT whilst I wait for your response:

==The soul that sinneth, it shall die: the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

But if the wicked turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

None of his transgressions that he hath committed shall be remembered against him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked? saith the Lord Jehovah; and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?== (Ezekiel 18:20-23 - ASV)



Grace and peace,

David

Turretinfan said...

David:

I agree with the traditional Reformed answer, namely that there is only one way, truth and life: Jesus Christ.

Those whose sins were forgiven were forgiven through Christ's sacrifice, which was pictured in the bloody Old Testament sacrifices and sacraments, just as it is pictured in the bloodless New Testament sacraments.

-TurretinFan

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of God, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

TF I was curious about your translation of Mark 2:1-12 could you please provide me the translation that you are using for this particular citation?

Thanks.

Another thought is it not dishonest on behalf of Christians to ask Muslims how we get our sins forgiven without some kind of atoning blood sacrifice. If the same Christians also believe that the OT prophets were not saved accept through the death of Christ Jesus?

It seems they should cut to the chase and simply say, 'Without Christ Jesus death upon the cross no one is saved period'.

So basically we have Christological projections back upon the OT?

Turretinfan said...

TGV19:

I used the King James Version for all the Scripture quotations, including the quotation of Mark 2:1-12.

You asked: "Another thought is it not dishonest on behalf of Christians to ask Muslims how we get our sins forgiven without some kind of atoning blood sacrifice."

No, it's not dishonest. Why would you think that it was dishonest?

You stated: "If the same Christians also believe that the OT prophets were not saved accept through the death of Christ Jesus?"

Again, I'm not sure what you see as the problem here. But yes, the OT believers (not just the prophets, but all the believers) were trusting in God's promised messiah first prophesied by God himself upon the Fall.

"It seems they should cut to the chase and simply say, 'Without Christ Jesus death upon the cross no one is saved period'."

That's right.

"So basically we have Christological projections back upon the OT?"

Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies. He fulfills them from, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Genesis 3:15) to "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure." (Daniel 2:44-45)

-TurretinFan

natamllc said...

Excellent today TF!

Yes indeed, let those who are forgiven and have received and continue to receive forgiveness give thanks and praise the Lord continually, daily!!

Let our hearts be merry even though our sins find us out.

Let's not forget that we are discussing two "God" established ways God forgives us "all" of our "sins". The one way was, by the Law of Atonement, sins were atoned for "once a year", year by year. The other way, done "once", for all time, was made for "all" the sins of His people.

Sins produce death, period!

Two things should be understood by that. One, sin is dealt with only two ways and it is "dealt" with, sins are atoned for. One way, the weaker of the two ways, was by the law atonement "until" the other way came by the Gospel atonement, promised to God's people.

Remember that the legal means of atonement kept us "looking" forward, once a year, when the "High" Priest went in and made atonement for the people's "prior" year sins.

What do you make of that?

God is establishing something here about the "nature" of sin,"our nature". It doesn't cease no matter how many times, once a year, or once for all, it happens when making atonement for our sins. Death is the only solution to the sin problem. The important thing is God "forgives" us of our sins and teaches us to "look forward" to that day when Jesus returns to make a final announcement regarding our "Salvation", not our sins! Those who receive the Gospel have received the final notice about our sins.

Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Now, atoning for our sins came first by a revelation when Abram understood and believed the "Promise" of God that he would bring forth a son, Isaac and it was counted to him for Righteousness. The revelation "given" to Abram was a glimpse of his "Grand" Son, Jesus. Implicit in the revelation of imputed "Righteousness" is "the" grand scheme for "all" forgiveness, a "Once" for all scheme done by this "Grand" Son, Jesus, to take away for all time the sins of His people. That scheme dealt a death blow, you can say, to "Death", by virtue of the "life", "suffering", "crucifixion", "death", "burial" and "resurrection" of His life back to His Eternal Life in Glory!

Remember, only those who are with the devil will refuse to turn back to God and bow down and worship Him. Why? Because there is no forgiveness appointed for them! This is a mystery.

Forgiveness is given to those "appointed" to Eternal Life. To these Faith is given. To these, a believing "Spiritual" heart is given to them, in that they have been appointed, which comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, even to those who read and hear what TF has produced for our Joy today. This Gospel of the Kingdom is for those appointed, both from the Jews and from every other nation, tongue, kindred and people:

Act 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, "'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'"
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Act 13:49 And the word of the Lord was spreading throughout the whole region.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of God, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

Please note that the passage in Luke does little to establish the 'divinity' of Jesus. Infact a good argument from the passage can made to show that the woman is divinity herself!


Note that the Pharisees obviously didn't think that a person was divine because they could ascertain a person's spiritual status.

"This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner"

It is quite clear that they believe that prophets are given spiritual insight and this in no way establishes deity.

Please note that we have little to no back ground about this woman.

It simply says, "And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house"

That being the case I would like to propose that the woman was divine because she KNEW who Jesus was. It doesn't tell us how she knew.

I mean if we are to take certain paragraphs and ignore the context around them a case could be made for just about anything!

I also do not understand how you can advance the deity of Jesus in Matthew and completely miss Matthew 9:8

" But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto MEN."

*Note* Men plural. Not just a man.

The fact that Jesus 'knew' their hearts does little to establish anything as the Phrisees themselves felt that prophets of God would be given spiritual insights.

That would be like saying a prophet of God made a prophecy about the future and it came true therefore that prophet is God.

It is honestly not very solid argumentation when we look at the facts.

Luke 2:52 'Jesus increased in wisdom and in favour with God and man'. We know that God doesn't increase in wisdom.

Mark 13:32 "Of that day and hour knoweth no man, not the angels nor the son but the father".

Daniel B Wallace has written a very good article I would encourage everyone to have a look at here:

http://thegrandverbalizer19.blogspot.com/2010/05/why-jesus-does-not-know-everything.html


Not only this but both Acts 5:29-32 and Acts 13:33-39 do little to help our case to establish Jesus as a person who forgives sins for all mankind as both text only relate to Israel.

"for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

"You will remember that there was a way for people to obtain forgiveness from God through the sacrificial system that GOD GAVE TO ISRAEL THROUGH Moses:"

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. (John 20:23)

No one is making an argument that the disciples are divine

Kate said...

I was part of a cult for many years, and one of the core doctrines was that Jesus did NOT have to die for the forgiveness of our sins, and their "proof" for that was how Jesus forgave sins before the crucifixion. I think even some liberal protestants like Leslie Weatherhead taught that. So my question is, what exactly was the forgiveness Jesus himself offered people - was it like that forgiveness of the OT, forgiveness based on what he was going to accomplish at Calvary?

Turretinfan said...

Kate:

You asked: "So my question is, what exactly was the forgiveness Jesus himself offered people - was it like that forgiveness of the OT, forgiveness based on what he was going to accomplish at Calvary?"

Yes. Just as the Lord's Supper, when initiated, pointed forward to the cross - so also all of the forgiveness Christ gave was based on the cross.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

natamllc said...

Kate,

I believe Kate, you bring into focus an important distinction between the two "gods", The God of the Bible, and the god the Bible teaches us is "the" false god.

I repeatedly say to those who hear there is no where in the Bible where the Holy Spirit teaches us the "Devil" is willing to die for us so that we will whole heartedly worship him.

Why? Why is the Devil unwilling to die for our worship the way Christ did?

Because he does not possess the "Eternal" Life Jesus Christ is.

Think about it. What would happen to the devil if he did for us literally what Jesus did on the cross at Calvary, which all the Word of God points to?

The Devil is a creature. He is not an "eternal" being possessing "Life".

Jesus Christ came into a "body" prepared for Him so that we can know Him both as God and man.

The Devil can possess man's life too.

The Devil cannot do what Jesus did in this life for us. He cannot lay his life down for us like Jesus laid down His life for us.

Why? Because that is the fatal mistake he knows he cannot do. So the best the Devil can do before those he wants worship from in this life is to manifest himself as though he is God. He produces in us a false sense of the "fear" of death to get us to turn to him and worship and bow down to him.

Which, those of us who have received the abundance of grace and the Gift of Righteousness through the "blood" purchased redemption only Christ can provide us with, by His own physical death on a cross by the hands of godless men, His life for our life, now realize is true.

I would point you back to those verses TF makes reference to in Acts 26 and "especially" verse 18.

And I would remind you that "no one" comes to Christ lest "He" draws them to Himself, because of the Will of Our Heavenly Father, to receive the benefits of His death on a cross by the sanctification work of the Holy Spirit, which are one's personal redemption, the forgiveness of their own sins, and the gift of Eternal Life in this life now and in the life to come, too.

There is good reason for us to rejoice and praise the Lord continually, now!

Turretinfan said...

TGV19 wrote: "Please note that the passage in Luke does little to establish the 'divinity' of Jesus. Infact a good argument from the passage can made to show that the woman is divinity herself!"

I'm not sure I understand what argument you think can be made for the woman being divinity herself.

TGV19 wrote: "Note that the Pharisees obviously didn't think that a person was divine because they could ascertain a person's spiritual status."

You're right. While only God knows the heart, the Pharisee thought that a true prophet would know what sort of woman this was. We are not told whether this is because he thought that prophets were given a gift of discernment, or whether the woman's clothing gave her away. In many places, one can tell a prostitute simply by the way she is dressed.

"Please note that we have little to no back ground about this woman."

Agreed.

"That being the case I would like to propose that the woman was divine because she KNEW who Jesus was. It doesn't tell us how she knew."

I don't think you mean this seriously. The answer, of course, is that we are told that this woman is a sinner. That's enough information for us to know that the woman is not divine.

"I mean if we are to take certain paragraphs and ignore the context around them a case could be made for just about anything!"

Let's avoid using that method.

"I also do not understand how you can advance the deity of Jesus in Matthew and completely miss Matthew 9:8

" But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto MEN."

*Note* Men plural. Not just a man."

Do you think that the "power" to which they refer is not Jesus but something else?

"The fact that Jesus 'knew' their hearts does little to establish anything as the Phrisees themselves felt that prophets of God would be given spiritual insights."

Let's divide the issue into two parts:

1) You do acknowledge, I suppose, that He who created man, knows the heart of man?

2) Furthermore, we agree that God could give a prophet insight into the mind of another man.

3) So, all that your comments do is offer another possibility: i.e. that Jesus did not know this of himself, but rather he was told it from above.

TGV19 wrote: "Not only this but both Acts 5:29-32 and Acts 13:33-39 do little to help our case to establish Jesus as a person who forgives sins for all mankind as both text only relate to Israel."

There are plenty of passages (John 3:16, for example) that show that Jesus' Incarnation was not only to benefit national Israel, but also the world.

TGV19 wrote: "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. (John 20:23) No one is making an argument that the disciples are divine"

There are a few reasons why that is. The first and foremost is that they were to be guided by the Holy Ghost, who is God (see the immediately previous verse).

- TurretinFan

Ryan said...

I am beginning to see the importance of recognizing not only that our sins are forgiven in Christ but the way in which they are forgiven in Christ. Until recently, I did not realize that RCs rejected penal substitution, and yet it appears quite evident that they HAVE to reject it in order to maintain their charge of legal fiction with regards to imputed righteousness. If they didn't reject penal substitution, they would have to allow that the same way in which Christ was reckoned a sinner - not because He sinned - because of our sins, we are reckoned righteous - not because we are righteous - because of His righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21).

God is good!

Turretinfan said...

Yes, Ryan. It is quite key.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of God, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

TF: "We are not told whether this is because he thought that prophets were given a gift of discernment, or whether the woman's clothing gave her away."

You are correct that point is not made clear.

"But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto MEN."

*Note* Men plural. Not just a man."

TF:Do you think that the "power" to which they refer is not Jesus but something else?

The point from the text is that the power that refers to Jesus can refer to others other than him. Hince they glorified GOD who gave such power unto Men (Jesus included).

TF:3) So, all that your comments do is offer another possibility: i.e. that Jesus did not know this of himself, but rather he was told it from above.

Thank you for seeing my point.

TF:There are plenty of passages (John 3:16, for example) that show that Jesus' Incarnation was not only to benefit national Israel, but also the world.

This does little to help us establish that Jesus forgave sins beyond Israel. We all know that Calvinist interpretation of John 3:16 that the world means 'the elect'.

TF:There are a few reasons why that is. The first and foremost is that they were to be guided by the Holy Ghost, who is God (see the immediately previous verse).

It can be said just the same that Jesus was guided by the Holy Ghost. Rather or not the Holy Ghost is God is probably best left for another post.

Ryan D. McConnell said...

thegrandverbalizer19,

You said: This does little to help us establish that Jesus forgave sins beyond Israel. We all know that Calvinist interpretation of John 3:16 that the world means 'the elect'.

Actually, no, that's not the typical Calvinist interpretation. The typical Calvinist interpretation is just as your objecting to. "World" there is being used to say that God only set His Son for Jews but for Gentiles also. Or, as I think it is best put, "men from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation."

Also, do note that a distinction is also made by most non-dispensationalists between the ethnic, national Israel and the true, spiritual Israel. So, when it says that Jesus was raised to grant repentance to Israel, that's typically going to be taken as referring to spiritual Israel.

Ryan D. McConnell said...

thegrandverbalizer19,

You said: This does little to help us establish that Jesus forgave sins beyond Israel. We all know that Calvinist interpretation of John 3:16 that the world means 'the elect'.

Actually, no, that's not the typical Calvinist interpretation. The typical Calvinist interpretation is just as your objecting to. "World" there is being used to say that God only set His Son for Jews but for Gentiles also. Or, as I think it is best put, "men from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation."

Also, do note that a distinction is also made by most non-dispensationalists between the ethnic, national Israel and the true, spiritual Israel. So, when it says that Jesus was raised to grant repentance to Israel, that's typically going to be taken as referring to spiritual Israel.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of God, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord...

Ryan D. McConnell said,

"Also, do note that a distinction is also made by most non-dispensationalists between the ethnic, national Israel and the true, spiritual Israel"

Using the method of Sola Scriptura what are the text that show Israel is spiritual?

By the way I have stopped by your blog and for someone who is 23 years of age you have quite an excellent blog and layout. I am happy to see more Americans in their early 20s getting more involved in theology and matters of faith.

So I will try and make it a point Allah-willing to stop by from time to time and read up.

Coram Deo said...

TGV19 asked: Using the method of Sola Scriptura what are the text that show Israel is spiritual?

TGV19, somehow I don't believe you have any real interest in Sola Scriptura, or else you would not be a Muslim who spends his time arguing against Christians, denying the truth claims of Jesus Christ, and rejecting the One True and Living God of the Holy Bible in favor of your own man-made religion of works righteousness.

Therefore your questions are merely tedious and digingenuous as opposed to being sincere.

But because Christians are commanded to be ready to give an answer to those who ask the reason for their hope, I do pray that I and others will continue to be patient with your hardened and gross unbelief and provide answers to your insincere and mocking inquiries.

Below is a text from Romans 9 where the Apostle Paul begins expounding upon the theme that the children of Abraham, who are the heirs to God's promises, are not descended of flesh, but are made children by the Spirit by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” - Romans 9:6-7)

Because you deny the Son you do not have the Father nor the Spirit, therefore you are blind to spiritual truths, and you stand condemned in your sin and rebellion.

You must be born-again. You must repent and turn away from your false religion of Islam and bow before the only Lord and Savior of men, Jesus Christ the Righteous.

In Christ,
CD

Turretinfan said...

TGV19:

I had asked:"Do you think that the "power" to which they refer is not Jesus but something else?"

You responded: "The point from the text is that the power that refers to Jesus can refer to others other than him. Hince they glorified GOD who gave such power unto Men (Jesus included)."

You seem to think that the crowd is saying that God gave power to Jesus and other men. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that God gave Jesus (who is the power) to men. Do you see that alternative way of looking at it?

And, of course, we don't necessarily think that the crowd understood that Jesus himself was God. So, while I think my interpretation is better, the other interpretation is not something over which I'd be especially concerned.

TF:3) So, all that your comments do is offer another possibility: i.e. that Jesus did not know this of himself, but rather he was told it from above.

Thank you for seeing my point.

I wrote: "There are plenty of passages (John 3:16, for example) that show that Jesus' Incarnation was not only to benefit national Israel, but also the world."

You responded: "This does little to help us establish that Jesus forgave sins beyond Israel. We all know that Calvinist interpretation of John 3:16 that the world means 'the elect'."

It doesn't mean the elect, it refers to the elect. The reason we know it refers to the elect is from the context. The use of "world," however, is used to show the global scope of his purpose.

You wrpte: "It can be said just the same that Jesus was guided by the Holy Ghost. Rather or not the Holy Ghost is God is probably best left for another post."

People can say lots of things. Where does Scripture say that Jesus was guided by the Holy Ghost? I realize people can just make things up ... but we who are guided by God's revelation wish to see some reason to believe it.

-TurretinFan

natamllc said...

TGV19,

I will be bold and state I believe you are being drawn out of darkness into His Marvelous Light by the "Holy Spirit".

You wrote in response to TF, I believe, above, this:

"It can be said just the same that Jesus was guided by the Holy Ghost. Rather or not the Holy Ghost is God is probably best left for another post."

One problem I see here with you is the fact Islam does not embrace the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as we who have been "born again" do.

While it is true with these words of Scripture that Jesus grew up in His "humanity", through the body prepared for Him, we see and understand the relationship He had with the Holy Spirit to be quite different than the one we have with Him:

Luk 2:40 And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom. And the favor of God was upon him.

and

Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.

I would note some further verses for your edification if perchance the Holy Spirit would quicken your soulish mind:::>

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Here, it seems there is a participation Jesus has "with" the Holy Spirit. You might argue that He is being 'led' by the Holy Spirit.

However, when you couple those verses in Hebrews with this verse, cited next, you might gain an insight that we have about just what the relationship is between God the Father, Jesus, the Prophet and the earthly Overseer, the Holy Spirit? He is the One Who gave the important accounting to God in Glory that Jesus is sinless!

1Ti 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

I believe in the Holy Spirit and worship Him equally as much as I do God the Father and Jesus, My Lord, these Two Who sit on Thrones in Eternal Glory. The Holy Spirit, being here from the beginning, could not have "vindicated" Christ after His resurrection had He, Christ, committed one violation of the Law of Righteousness His entire life in this world devils filled! They killed an innocent, sinless man when they killed Jesus!

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God and the Holy Spirit did "vindicated" Him as such to the Father for our witness on that great and notable day of His resurrection return to His Own Eternal Glory in Glory which is further proof of His prayer prayed:::>


Joh 17:4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of God, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

Coram Deo I would say I am suprised by your erratic behavior and response but actually I am not. I have heard it all before.

You started off with "I do pray that the Lord might be gracious to you and open your eyes to the glorious gospel of grace."

In a previous post and your trust in God deteriorated rather quickly.

I can completely dismiss you now Coram Deo because you went from a person who had the ability to pierce through metal and stone and see people 'in their spiritual struggle'

Yet you turn around and completely overturn my confidence in your ability by stating things like

"But because Christians are commanded to be ready to give an answer to those who ask the reason for their hope, I do pray that I and others will continue to be patient with your hardened and gross unbelief and provide answers to your INSINCERE and MOCKING inquiries."

It is you who has diminished hope in God. You should trust that there are only three options with me. Again this is dependent upon your own theological views as a 'Christian'.

1) God has ordained before the creation of the world that I will be among the lost.

2) I am spiritually dead in Christ or as some may say I am part of the Elect but my number has not come up yet. (Regeneration before faith).

3) I am spiritually dead but when God sends his Holy Spirit I will recieve faith in all the things you believe (Regeneration WITH faith).

I am amazed how Natamllc can come to a very different conclusion than that of your own.

"I will be bold and state I believe you are being drawn out of darkness into His Marvelous Light by the "Holy Spirit"

Coram Deo I have an interest in being humble and sincere to teach and to learn. I have also dealt with people who are crass, arrogant, haughty and think they are some intellectual bully. When I run across such people they usually don't like the taste of their own medicine.

This does not apply to anyone but Coram Deo until you can take out the malice that is in your heart you and I have nothing further to discuss.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of God, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

TF: You seem to think that the crowd is saying that God gave power to Jesus and other men. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that God gave Jesus (who is the power) to men. Do you see that alternative way of looking at it?

I do see your way of looking at it. I would guess that one way of getting to the bottom of it would be to look at the Greek Text. What was the subject Jesus or his power. Jesus or his deeds?

The reason that I feel my position is quite strong is that with the exception of possibly the statement, "Surely this man was the Son Of God" and 'My Lord and My God" there does not seem to be anyone who recognised Jesus deity in the span of 30 years.

So this is why I am do not believe this post made an especially strong case for the diety of Jesus.

TF: People can say lots of things. Where does Scripture say that Jesus was guided by the Holy Ghost? I realize people can just make things up ... but we who are guided by God's revelation wish to see some reason to believe it.

Reason to believe how about Acts 10:38 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him."

Do you have an instance of Jesus healing or forgiving people BEFORE he recieved the Holy Spirit?

Turretinfan said...

Lord willing, I will provide some additional direct or explicit testimonies to Jesus being the Son of God in a new post.

natamllc said...

TGV19,

to chime in on TF's parade with you, you make, as far as I am concerned, the most revelant comment to date with regard to these various threads we have been exchanging ideas and reasonings back and forth with one another:

"TGV19 said: So this is why I am do not believe this post made an especially strong case for the diety of Jesus."

Absolutely!

None of us believed.

The fact that no one of those alive believed, who handled Him, saw Him, heard Him, learned from Him and watched Him operate among the faithless Jews and Gentiles, establishes one fact, at least as far as I am concerned. No prophet after Adam until the birth of John the Baptist and Jesus Himself, and there is reason to doubt John the Baptist's beliefs about just Who Jesus Is, if they all were alive during those short 33 and one half years of Christ human life, would not have been fully convinced themselves Jesus is Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

All of them believe now, though, now that they have all gone onto their personal Eternal reward, "know" Jesus is Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God!

What is amazing to me, is, the demons believed Jesus is Jesus all along and they all tremble! Hmmmmm? Why is that? Is it because they are from the prior Eternity before these present heavens and earth and they knew Him then as they do now, Him in His fullness and Glory, the Son of God, Jesus is Jesus?

Let's take a bit of liberty now and imagine what the Thrones of Glory looked like to the devils after Jesus left His and came down from Heaven to earth through and by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit upon the womb of the Virgin?

Hmmmmm, they must of thought, "where did Jesus go"? He is no longer sitting on His Glorious Throne? "Where is Jesus"???

No, no one believed Jesus' own Words. They believed and glimpsed things about Him. And as He hung on that Cross of Redemption and Atonement there that day dying for the sins of His own people, of the Jews and of every nation, tongue, kindred, tribe and people, "all" were leaving Him alone as their faith was fading away as they were believing that He too was a Great Prophet!

I would say, though, there were beginning to be cracks in their reasonings, especially notice this guy's understanding, coming alive:::>

Mat 27:54 When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"

and


Mar 15:39 And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that in this way he breathed his last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!"

and

Luk 23:47 Now when the centurion saw what had taken place, he praised God, saying, "Certainly this man was innocent!"


What I or TF or anyone can expect here with regard to you and your heart is one of the three ideas you put forth above already in response to Coram Deo:

1) God has ordained before the creation of the world that I will be among the lost.

2) I am spiritually dead in Christ or as some may say I am part of the Elect but my number has not come up yet. (Regeneration before faith).

3) I am spiritually dead but when God sends his Holy Spirit I will recieve faith in all the things you believe (Regeneration WITH faith).

I would say to you now TGV19 just what the Prophet Isaiah said already:::>


Isa 1:18 "Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.
Isa 1:19 If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land;
Isa 1:20 but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be eaten by the sword; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

Ryan D. McConnell said...

thegrandverbalizer19,

You said: Using the method of Sola Scriptura what are the text that show Israel is spiritual?

Coram Deo already provided Romans 9:6-7 but here are some additional texts (ESV translation):

Romans 2:28-29: For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Galatians 3:7-9: Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed." So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Galatians 6:15-16: For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.


You also said: By the way I have stopped by your blog and for someone who is 23 years of age you have quite an excellent blog and layout. I am happy to see more Americans in their early 20s getting more involved in theology and matters of faith.

I'm still working on the website. The books section is taken longer than expected and I haven't even started on the articles and resources sections. Lord willing, I will hopefully have all of it done by the end of the year. Thank you for the compliments, though!

Coram Deo said...

TVG19,

Since you are not willing to hear the truth about your sin and rebellion, and the condemnation you abide under because of your rejection of the Truth, perhaps you would enlighten us about your Islamic beliefs about Jesus Christ?

You accept the virgin birth of Jesus, correct?

You accept the miracles of Jesus, correct?

You accept that Jesus will return to earth at the last day, correct?

You believe that Jesus is the Messiah (Al-Masih), correct?

You believe that Jesus is the Word of God (Kalimatu’llah), correct?

You believe that Jesus is the Messenger of God (Rasulu’llah), correct?

You believe that Jesus is the Prophet of God (Nabiyu’llah), correct?

Yet your faith fatally stops short of the whole truth about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Matthew 1:23 — "‘They will call him Immanuel’—which means, ‘God with us.’"

John 1:1 — "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14 — "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

John 8:58 — "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’"

John 10:30 — "I and the Father are one."

John 20:28 — "Thomas said to him [Jesus], ‘My Lord and my God!’"

Colossians 2:9 — "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form."

Hebrews 1:3 — "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being."

Acts 4:11-12 — "This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

1 John 2:23 — "No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also."

You must be born-again, TVG19. Repent and place your trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

In Christ,
CD

gerry said...

My absolute favorite evidence of the divinity of the Lord Jesus is Isa 9:6

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."