Thursday, September 27, 2007

Apparently You Still Can Get Excommunicated ...

Although it is the first time it happened in Little Rock in 165 years, a few nuns have been excommunicated (according to the journalists it was for heresy ...) (source).

One of the nuns' comments:

"We are at peace and we know that for us we are doing the right thing. We pray that the church will open their eyes before it is too late. This is God's work through Mary, the blessed mother, and we're doing what we're asked to do. She [the founder of the group] is doing only what God and Mary tells her to do."

What was their heresy? Allegedly they believe that an 86 year old nun in their midst is a reincarnation of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and that God speaks directly through her.

That would seem to give her authority independent of the church, which - of course - cannot be tolerated by Rome. If there is one lesson to be learned from Rome's opposition to Sola Scriptura, that is the lesson.

An affilliated group, the "Sons of Mary," was apparently not excommunicated for heresy, though its spokesman said: "The Virgin Mary took possession of her soul. I would rather say it that way."

Bizarre stuff, but Mary speaking would not be God speaking, and consequently would not be divine revelation. Thus, apparently, such a view is tolerable within Roman Catholicism (however odd it may be).

I would not be the least surprised if the woman was possessed, but it is shame that the blessed Mother of Christ would be accused of possessing her.


P.S. No, Jonathan, this is not the post I was referring to.


TheoJunkie said...

Well... I have to say that I would hope my church would excommunicate anyone who refused to repent of the same (even if their leader claimed to be a reincarnated grasshopper)... though heresy (and idolatry) would be at issue, not authoritarian fears.

Drew said...


It's amazing to me that you really think this was a case of authority. It may surprise you, but Catholics do have firm beliefs, sincere convictions, and doctrinal standards. Further, most every visionary which Church officials have ever "approved" was a splinter in the side of his or her bishop.

Now, I believe that you have yet to offer a convincing critique of Catholic Christianity because Catholicism is true. However, your attempts to do so suffer fatally from the fact that you attack a caricature of the Church which is laughable, not a realistic picture of a Church that could actually inspire millions and billions of adherents for the course of two millenia.

Until you recognize the good will and sincerity of average and clerical Catholics, you'll be doomed to attack what few Catholics actually see as their church.

Turretinfan said...


Yes, considering the "I am the Immaculate Conception" farce, and considering that other groups who say that Mary is "possessing" the woman are not being excommunicated, I think it has to do with authority.

As for the usual allegation that nobody who criticizes understands Catholicism see here.

As for whether "Catholicism is true," I respectfully disagree.

As for what I "attack," to say that it is a "caricature" is bizarre. Was the news article making up the 165 year, no excommunication claim?

Buddhism, Islam, Mormonism, and Hinduism all have large groups of followers. Thus, Roman Catholicism claim based on numbers is unpersuasive.

"Until you recognize the good will and sincerity of average and clerical Catholics, you'll be doomed to attack what few Catholics actually see as their church."

I don't doubt the "good will" of the average Catholic or the average Nepalese Buddhist. God's restraining grace is present everywhere, regardless of institutionalized error.

A big part of the problem is that the average Buddhist does not realize that he is in darkness, and the average Catholic does not realize a great deal about Catholic history, epistemology, etc.