Steve Ray wrote this blog post:
Someone informed me that James White the Baptist was continuing his rant concerning my blog on the Assumption of Mary. The guy continues to take me far more seriously than I have ever taken him. He's really just a little man full of himself — an angry know-it-all who's really just a tempest in a teapot. The only reason I have ever responded to him in the past is for the sake of others reading the material. If I had nine lives I might waste some time refuting his latest rantings, but this time his preaching is not worth responding to. Let him prattle on. I have better things to do that to respond to every pontificating anti-Catholic that sets up a blog.
Example (2)
Then, in the combox, Steve Ray wrote:
Steve Ray here: I agree with you completely, but there are some innocent folks who might be influenced by such nonsense and it is good for them to see that guys like White and his kind are very easy to refute. If someone does not refute them, like saints have refuted heretics in the past, then others might think they cannot be refuted. Such petty, self-important know-it-alls need to be refuted so others don't fall prey to them.
Actually James White does more for good for the Catholic Church right where he is! I know many people that have become more convinced of the Catholic Church by listening to arrogant folks like him.
Notice that Steve Ray has taken the "label 'anti-Catholic' rather than debate sensibly" page from Dave Armstrong's book.
But look at the lack of positional stability:
In (1), James White is not to be taken seriously.
In (2), James White should be taken seriously or "others might think [he] cannot be refuted."
In (1), "If I had nine lives I might waste some time refuting his latest rantings, but this time his preaching is not worth responding to. Let him prattle on."
In (2), "there are some innocent folks who might be influenced by such nonsense," and consequently James White should not be ignored.
In (1), James White is a nobody: "I have better things to do that to respond to every pontificating anti-Catholic that sets up a blog."
In (2), James White is a significant Roman Catholic apologetic tool: "I know many people that have become more convinced of the Catholic Church by listening to arrogant folks like him," and "James White does more for good for the Catholic Church right where he is!"
In (1), it would take a lot of time to refute James White, "If I had nine lives I might waste some time refuting his latest rantings."
In (2), it would be easy to refute James White, "guys like White and his kind are very easy to refute."
About the only commonality between the two is the vitriol exuded against Dr. White:
(1) "He's really just a little man full of himself — an angry know-it-all who's really just a tempest in a teapot."
(2) "Such petty, self-important know-it-alls need to be refuted" and "arrogant folks like him"
Yes, Steve Ray hates James White - that's easy enough to see. It's also easy to see why Steve Ray hates James White, and that is because Dr. White preaches the Truth and exposes the errors and delusions of Rome.
May we all be labelled and despised by those who hate the truth, but
May God be praised whose servants we are, for whose sake we endure these things,
To God be the Glory!
-Turretinfan
6 comments:
One quick comment...you said that you like to be labeled by those who "hate the truth," but I think what should have been said given your context is that you want to endure labeling by those who "hate you or Dr. White." I would say it's a stretch to go from Steve Ray's comments straight to "he hates the truth." You *could* argue he does hate Dr. White, though I disagree. But that's different from hating truth.
How many Catholics do you think actually affirm hatred of what you consider true? Even if they disagree? Do they hate the Trinity? Do they hate Communion? Do they hate baptism? Do they hate atonement? Do they hate Christ's role as mediator? Do they hate Christ's death? Do they hate his resurrection? Do they hate faith? Do they hate works that Christ prepared for us? Do they hate Scripture?
If you can say yes to the above, then by all means say that Steve Ray hates the truth. Even as protestants, we should watch our words. May they be edifying and glorify God.
Your comment about watching our words is good reminder.
No, I meant I count it joy when I'm targeted by those who oppose the gospel of Christ, and I hope brother White feels the same way (though unkind words can hurt).
I don't think Steve Ray represents all or most Catholics.
I don't agree with your implicit claim that someone must expressly deny ALL truth in order to hate the gospel. I don't see the point to addressing each of the items you listed, for that reason.
-Turretinfan
I think the reason that Steve Ray is annoyed is that James White uses so much ad-hominen all the time and then afterwards plays the innocent that he is only interested in truth. Admitedly Steve hasnt responed in the most charitable way, but James White has a way of getting under your skin. If James White wasnt so arrogant and condescending, then maybe he would get some charitable replies, then the real issues can be debated without mud slinging.
Yes unkind words DO HURT, thats why James White should apologise for his unkind attacks on Steve Ray and Steve in return should cool it.
Dear Anonymous reader,
You don't like Dr. White's tactics (his way of expressing himself) and you think Steve Ray is more upset with how Dr. White said what he said than with the content of Dr. White's arguments.
You also think Dr. White owes Steve Ray an apology for "unkind attacks on Steve Ray," which - as I understand - you believe were responsible for Steve Ray's less than charitable outburst.
I don't agree with your opinions, but I acknowledge that you hold them.
Thanks for your thoughts.
-Turretinfan
Hey TF,
Didn't we meet a while back on Crosswalk, or Myspace?
Anyway, People are sinful, and are going to become hateful, or nasty, or whatever you want to call it, when they are offended because their passion has been attacked.
Especially, when they feel their passion has been misrepresented, either on purpose or out of ignorance.
So, it really doesn't matter who owes whom an apology. Love covers a multitude of sins.
Unfortunately, most Christians think they have to label themselves, then believe everything that falls under that label.
I agree with Steve Ray on issues refering to Mary as Queen of Heaven, but disagree with his opinion on IC. I agree with James White on predestination and election, but disagree with his Premillennialism.
So what if the only label I have for myself is Christian. Isn't that enough?
Just throwin stuff out there!,
Gini
James White isn't pre-millenial.
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