Thursday, November 29, 2007

Muslims and Catholics - Same god

From the pope's recent letter in response to the open letter by 138 Muslim scholars:

Without ignoring or downplaying our differences as Christians and Muslims, we can and therefore should look to what unites us, namely, belief in the one God, the provident Creator and universal Judge who at the end of time will deal with each person according to his or her actions. We are all called to commit ourselves totally to him and to obey his sacred will.
If the pope believes in the same god as the Muslims, then the pope is no Christian.

For all things were made by the Logos, and it is Christ who will come again in Judgment - yet Muslims deny the divinity of Jesus Christ and consequently demonstrate that they do not know the Father - indeed they do not know God at all - for if they did, they would not reject His Son.

If the pope is lying to the Muslims in order to create goodwill ... or if Roman Catholics would like to deny that the pope is saying what the letter says ... I leave readers to draw their own conclusions.



Ken said...

This phenomenon isn't anything new. The RCC has a long track record of ecumenicism that goes beyond the 1st Century creeds and into sheer lunacy.

Turretinfan said...

I would say the track record of ecumenicism seems to be mostly a 20th century innovation, though surely there are scattered bits and pieces before that.


Albert said...

Dave Armstrong denies the claim that Roman Catholics and Muslims worship the same God.

Turretinfan said...


It would be easy to get that impression. That's not what Dave says though.

Dave denies that Muslims worship Allah (for Allah, says Dave, does not exist). Instead, Dave affirms that Muslims worship Jehovah, because their attempted worship of a non-existent deity kind of transfers to Jehovah (I'm paraphrasing).

It's a subtle argument. I prepared a post in response to Dave but haven't published it.


TheoJunkie said...

[From the Charity Desk]:

The verbatim, specific, actually-stated words in the pope's quote above are true.

We can certainly argue the error of what is omitted (this isn't the desk of universal charity)...

But indeed there is only one God who is Creator and Judge.

On the one hand, God is Who and How He is. There is no other truth. If we describe him any differently, then we worship another God.

On the other hand, there are indeed some (though sadly few) aspects of God that Christians and Muslims agree on.

At one point, I read "The Crescent in Light of the Cross"-- probably one of the most unbiased (but also unrelenting) apologetics against Islam for Christ I have ever seen. Abdul Saleeb-- a pen name taken for safety purposes that means "servant of the cross" --is one of the authors who wrote the outline of Islam for the book. He is an ex-muslim turned Christian.

He says that the worst thing we can do when trying to reach muslims is to make the statement that "Allah" and "God" are different beings. This is not to soften the truth, but because it is not necessary and it causes people to shut their ears off.

Rather, he says, it is better to just approach it as though Allah is God is Allah is God... but then start talking to the muslim about how "Allah truly is" (namely, redefine Allah as trinitarian, sending his Son, creation created by and through and for the Son...etc).

If we fault the Pope here, it is that he stopped talking too soon... but we can't fault him for the exact words that he did say.

Turretinfan said...

Dear TJ,

I respectfully, but firmly, disagree.

There is no God, but the Triune God - the god whose prophet Mohammed was is a usurper.

Just as Tawa, the Sun Spirit, in Hopi paganism is not the god who actually created the world, so the "Allah" of Mohammed is not the allah who actually created the world.

It is Christ who created the world, not Tawa, not "Allah," and not the "Deus" of the Vatican if that "Deus" is the same god as "Allah."


Carrie said...

It's a subtle argument. I prepared a post in response to Dave but haven't published it.

Look forward to that post. My impression was the same as Albert's. I'll have to read his post again, I guess.

Albert said...


It is clear that the Roman Catholic church has erred again at this point. Thanks for the correction. :)