Tuesday, November 13, 2007

All in Christ will be Quickened (a sur-response to Anonymous)

Apparently the same Anonymous commenter pointed out that the verse says "all" and stated:

"you don't beleive that "in Christ shall all be made alive" spiritually ... ."

Actually I do. Re-read the post, particularly the part that explains who "in Adam" and "in Christ" modify two different "all"s.

The "all in Adam" is the human race descending from him naturally, and the "all in Christ" are the elect.

You would understand that "all" was being modified if I said "all who have Christ as their savior," wouldn't you? or if I said "all in the Lamb's Book of Life"? I wonder why you have trouble understanding that here.

It's a simple Scriptural concept: if you died with Christ (i.e. if He represented you on the cross) then you will be raised with Christ.

-Turretinfan

4 comments:

Anonymous said...

Actually I do. Re-read the post, particularly the part that explains who "in Adam" and "in Christ" modify two different "all"s.

So the "all" that die in Adam is not the "all" that are made alive in Christ. Kinda makes the verse pointless. But if you will be reasonable, TF, you will read the preceding verse "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Is it talking about salvation or only about the resurrection? Only the resurrection, since the topic is that by man (Adam) came death (physical) and by man (Christ) came the resurrection.

Anonymous said...

TurretinFan,

Keep up the good work. However, it is rather depressing to read the people's comments on your limited atonement post. I pray that their shallow theology is not representative of the American Church, but I fear it is.

God save the Church,

natamllc said...

I will state unequivocally, you have to have the one or else there is no need for the other and the one would not have come to be!

Genesis 1:2 presupposes a "need" for both else the issue of election would go away.

I now know I came from Adam. I also now know I did not know this.

Someone other than me gave me knowledge, hence the election.

I now know Christ came from Heaven.

First things first for me.

First things first for Christ.

I die once and live twice. The Second Life is holy and sinless and of election, impeccable and kept and so Peter can claim duality of natures, Adamic and Divine!

I on the other hand can accept the man Peter and his revelation of the Man Christ Jesus or not. He declares a MORE SURE WORD OF PROPHECY. I cannot. I can relate what "experience" I have experienced. It then falls to you to accept my assertion of it as a MORE SURE WORD OF PROPHECY. But I hasten to say, that's really foolish seeing if God wanted more than Peter, James and John there that day, we would certainly know about it by now!

And though I make such a claim, it's not necessary and it would just be a foolish attempt to draw glory to myself and my own pride. It would serve me only in that I am not Peter the Apostle! There are no Church Fathers convening a council to include my writings as Holy Writ sufficient enough for others to safely heed that certain Truth and by it gain a confidence in obeying Jesus Christ.

I will just stick to the Word of God as it is now for me and continue the debate! :)

And seeing I do not doubt there were both Peter and Jesus, I rather agree with Scripture anyway. Mysteries abound for some and I can know all mysteries, but if I have not Love.... as Paul said, I am nothing!

God the Father, so be it!
God the Holy Ghost, so be it!
God the Lord Jesus Christ, so be it!
God's Holy Christian Church, so be it!

Turretinfan said...

Anonymous wrote: "So the "all" that die in Adam is not the "all" that are made alive in Christ. Kinda makes the verse pointless."

I answer: Not at all. The verse is contrasting two federal heads, Adam and the second Adam. Two federal heads, to "families" that they represent.

A: "But if you will be reasonable, TF, you will read the preceding verse "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Is it talking about salvation or only about the resurrection? Only the resurrection, since the topic is that by man (Adam) came death (physical) and by man (Christ) came the resurrection."

I answer: Certainly an important aspect of the passage is on the reality of the bodily resurrection (for denial of the bodily resurrection is one objection that Paul is addressing), but the focus is on the hope that those who trust in Christ have (See, for example, the previous context, verse 17). Those who are in Christ will be raised to life, those who are not in Christ will be raised to the second death, as we know from other Scripture.

That this is the point can also be seen from the subsequent conetext at verse 23, which mentions the resurrection of Christians ("they that are Christ's") at the second coming of Christ.

As well, see the concluding exultation in verse 57: "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

And compare:

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

-Turretinfan