Thursday, November 08, 2007

YEC Challenge

Open Challenge on the topic of YEC.


Resolved, that Scripture conveys that the Earth was created in week, less than 10,000 years ago.

UPDATE: I get to AFFIRM the resolution.

Anyone wish to deny the resolution?



Anonymous said...

Sure. My position will be "Resolved, that Scripture conveys that the Earth was created in one literal week, less than 8,000 years ago."

Anonymous said...

actually to be accurate "earth" should be changed to "the universe"

Turretinfan said...

Anonymous, to clarify, I get to be affirmative.


(I'll update my post)

TheoJunkie said...

If I had more time, I would debate with you: "Resolved: Que sera sera, we'll find out one day how old the earth is and unless one is firmly on one side or another, it won't impact their faith in the slightest."

... but I don't have time... and/or I'm too apathetic about the subject. Perhaps if someone would show me that the age of the earth somehow impacts the Gospel or our relationship with God in 2007 and beyond, I might take a firm stance.

:o) I'll subscribe though if you get any huckleberries.

Turretinfan said...

"Sera" would seem to be wrong tense.


You're free to think that the issue is unimportant.

I think you'll find that evolution is frequently cited as a reason for youth "losing faith."


TheoJunkie said...

I don't speak French... or Spanish (whatever the case may be)... and only some medical Latin.

"Whatever was, will be found out to be true, and we will discover that it is also described adequately in the bible." (though I'm not sure if Doris Day would be able to put that to music).

Yes, evolution is a problem (and certainly contradicts scripture-- unless restricted to "within-species breed changes" as you noted with dogs)... but at the same time, "old earth" does not equal "evolution must have happened." (YEC is a convenient underscore of Creation, but is not essential to disproving evolution).

I'm fine with old or young... and I'm not fine with evolution. And while a literal understanding of Genesis (and indeed the genealogies listed) certainly points to a young earth, at the same time, I think the language in Genesis is flexible enough to be true even if the earth is old. So, I can sleep soundly at night (or stay up worrying about other things).

Turretinfan said...

I respectfully submit to you, dear TJ, that the only reason to suppose "old earth" comes from outside the Bible. In contrast, "young earth" is directly derivable from Scripture.

Is Scripture your rule of faith? I already know the answer is "yes." So then, if it plainly says "X" - why not just accept it?


Turretinfan said...


Thanks for your recent comments.

I understand your position.

I (obviously) don't completely agree with you, but I think my expression of my disagreement will have to come in other (future) posts, considering that this particular post was really designed to challenge anyone with the temerity to oppose YEC (which is not you).


Carrie said...

No takers?

Another debate that would be interesting.

Turretinfan said...

I agree that it would be interesting.

Jonathan Prejean was individually challenged (since he has mocked the position) but he seems to have declined the invitation, so I've opened it up to anyone.


Science and Catechism Teacher said...

So not buying into the small-minded view that the universe is less than 10,000 years old.
1. Genesis does not exclude the possibility that the universe was billions of years old when the OT geneology began. How long was a day when God created the universe? We know that our day is not exactly 24 hours which is why from time-to-time we have what are called leap-seconds (like leap-years but limited to a second or two at a time). We also know that major earthquakes have caused the Earth to spin slower and faster, just like a spinning ice-skater can slow down by holding out their arms and speed up by pulling their arms closer.
2. Evolution's limitations to in-species breeding such as with dogs is ignoring the fact that most breeds of dogs came from wolves, a different species. The theory of evolution does not say we come from monkeys! Never has, never will.
3. Just because someone doesn't understand the science of radioactive dating doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Because we don't understand the Trinity does it not exist either? Or the divinity AND humanity of Christ?
4. Dinosaurs aren't in the Bible doesn't mean that dinosaurs didn't exist. Elephants, giraffes, whales and, yes, "holy" mackerel ain't there either. Neither are retarded people. Or marijuana. Or corporate greed (greed is soooo OT though). Or computers. Not a single mention of the periodic table of the elements! Calcium? Cancer? Cars? Nope.
5. The beauty of science is it seeks to find answers to what we don't know. The beauty of the Bible is it provides a framework for the things we don't understand. Neither are replaceable.

Francis Turretin said...

To whom are you talking?